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Banned: Theseason.org Doesn't Put Up With Dissent or Dissenters: Gog and Magog and America In Prophecy

The following exchange involves a website called theseason.org.  I was acquainted with theseason and it's operator for a very short time back in the late 90's about the time my first album came out (The Fear of Yahveh) The season is a website run by chapel students, for chapel students. Back in 1998 the fellowship was in the form of an email list which was primitive and dominated by a couple of unpleasant personalities absolutely dedicated to Arnold Murray's teachings. I didn't get that impression from Reine, the leader, (I do not withhold the names of public personalities) but I left because I did not want to make trouble, I already had a few doubts about Pastor Murray's teachings.  In the course of this exchange, I actually signed up on the season again, so that I could see what was going on there.  I actually signed up under my real name, (that is my custom, I do not use online "handles")so Reine removed me within a day or so, even though I was only there to look, and did not make a single comment.  It demonstrated for me the secretiveness and paranoia that Arnold Murray inspired in his followers.  He often talked about "covert activity"  and advised his followers to keep certain aspects of their beliefs secret, lest people who were not "ready for it" be offended. I am frequently bombarded with accusations and insinuations that my work is based on some sort of grand Kenite scheme that they "see through."  Which is pretty funny to me, I'm just a former student who happens to have a lot to say, I guess that is hard to deal with for some people.  Reine was wise to block me from her site, I had not visited there in years.  But what I saw, interested me.  I was strongly considering ripping the text of their bible studies and using it as source material to further dismantle their teachings. Creating the debates I never really get to have. Not that I couldn't still get my hands on them any time I please by going to a library and logging on under a pseudonym.   I might just do that.

Question/Comment: 

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 11:58 AM

Subject: I thought you might be interested in this

Hi,

I have been doing a independent study of Gog & Magog.  I posted over at Season.org. It's been up 4 hours. Lot's of views (70), but no comments.  I'm curious if they will remove it.

Here's it is:

I have been doing a independent study of Gog & Magog and things I was once taught are not adding up. Throughout the 1970's and 1990's I have been taught, and presumed true, that Russia is Gog & Magog.

 I have found that the idea that Gog and Magog is Russia only began with the release of the Scofield Reference Bible. The theory that Gog and Magog is Russia was further advanced by (H. Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth 1970, p.53) and a group of Evangelicals and Pastors during the time of the Cold War. There is no historical or documentation that the theory that Russia is Gog & Magog prior to that time. Do we accept that Gog and Magog are Russia as a article of faith?

Historical Evidence?

Yes,  the Assyrian Court records show  Assyrian  dealings with Magog, Meshech, Tubal, and Togarmah. In every case they describe the above peoples as living on the South Shore of the Black Sea.  Did the people migrate?  Yes some did, the early Assyrian records indicate they migrated and became the people's of Lydia, who later became the Etruscans  or Romans.  The Greek historian, Pliny verifies this.  There is no historical evidence that Gog or Magog migrated north to Moscow. None what so ever.

What about the  name Russ or Rosh?
Even if one were to transliterate the Hebrew rosh as a proper name rather than translate it as ‘chief’ (as does the KJV, NIV, and Hebrew Tanakh), it can have nothing to do with modern ‘Russia.’  This would be a gross anachronism for the modern name is based upon the name Rus, which was brought into the region of Kiev, north of the Black Sea, by the Vikings only in the Middle Ages.”  Russ or Rosh means” Oarsmen”. Who were the Oarsmen?  History is pretty clear.  Vikings.

So who or what is Gog & Magog?
This get's interesting. 
Gog and Magog (Hebrew: גּוֹג וּמָגוֹג Gog u-Magog; Arabic: يَأْجُوج وَمَأْجُوج‎ Yaʾjūj wa-Maʾjūj; Persian: یگوگ و مگوگ‎ yagug va Magug) are names that appear in the Old Testament, and in numerous subsequent references in other works, notably the Book of Revelation, as well as in the scripture of Islam, the Qur'an

GOG and MAGOG today?
Here's what I found:
Gog and Magog are the founders and gods of a certain city in existence today. They are portrayed as giants (Nephilim ). This particular city, or city state, venerates Gog and Magog. The city has statues of the two giants, and each  year the giant replica's of Gog and Magog are created and paraded down the streets during a event called the  Lord Mayor's Show .

The above city, or city state, is a totally independent, self governing city state within another large world renown city. This city state that venerates Gog and Magog is a world unto itself. This city state is also the most powerful governing entity on earth. It answers to no one. Not even the city, nor the country it is located in.  This city state is the center for all financial activities in the world. This city state physically owns Wall Street, and most stock exchanges in the world. The largest banks and financial  service companies are located or have offices there.  This city state is the “City of  London”. The “City of London” covers a area about one square mile. It's located in the center of London. But it's independent and not governed by London.  The “City of London” is the financial center of the world. It has it's own governing body, it's own Church, and security. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London.

Gog and Magog are celebrated as the patron founders of the “City of London”.   I can find no other evidence that would support the theory that Gog or Magog is Russia. The Russian people are from Viking decent. Moscow's Red Square is encompassed by four of the largest Christian Cathedrals in the world. Russian has been a Christian Nation since 800 ad, and at one time Moscow was once called the a leading center for Christianity.  Does that mean Russian is America's friend?  NO!      America's has had a adversarial relationship with Russian since 1920's. But America has also had adversarial relationships twice with England, twice with Germany, with Japan, China, and most other countries around the world.

Who is Gog and Magog?   

Name Withheld

City, Alaska

My First Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 1:25 PM

Subject: Re: I thought you might be interested in this

Name Withheld,  It is good to hear from you again. Absolutely love it.  It goes right along with what I was saying about Murray's final "Current Events" broadcast.  The majority of Russians identify themselves as Christians.  It annoyed me the Murray kept calling them "atheistic communists" He never got past 1990.  I like the way you went and investigated the assumptions behind Rosh Meshech.  Great work.

 

The way I take it, this would possibly align Gog and Magog with "the merchants of the earth"  It would make sense for worldy financial powers to be the essence of Gog and Magog.

 

I don't know if they will take it down, because you did not directly slam Arnold Murray.  They might think that you don't know any better.  And since Murray was often so vague about prophetic details, I think the majority might actually be very tolerant of something like this.  It depend what happens after the comments start coming.  I don't know what the policy is.

 

I wonder how Reine is... (Shamrock). She was running theseason back when I was a Shepherd's Chapel student.  She wrote a very nice review of my first album. 

 

Emailer's First Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 2:10 PM

Subject: Re: I thought you might be interested in this

Feel free to further research the subject, and use any material I provided.

I attended school in the 1950's-60's so I know all about the big bad commies, duck and cover stuff.  I understand the mind set.

We were told so many lies back then. And they're still telling them.

We were told all Russian Women were butt ugly. fat, squat, and always wore a kerchief on their heads. Boy, was that a lie!

They told us Russia was not Christian,  that was a lie.

I have friends who visited Russia to Hunt & Fish.....

They told us Russians citizens could not own guns. That was a lie. Russians are really into hunting and trapping. The Russian people may have more guns per capita than in the US.  Russia has lot's of wolves and grizzly bears. Plus Siberian Tigers!!! in their woods.

We were told that the Russian people owned no personal property. Sure the large farms were collective (so are ours, owned by Insurance Companies & corporations). But each Russian family was always given a plot of land for a summer home and personal garden. On the weekends the Russians leave Moscow and spend their weekends on their land and in their cabins. How many Americans own land and week end summer cabins?

Russia never was communist based upon the teachings of Karl Marx. Russia has been ruled by thugs. The Russian criminal element. The Russian Mafia. But are we any different?

Some teach that America is Babylon. I may investigate that next.  Either way, America acts like Babylon. Since the 1960's I can't believe how evil and corrupt America has become. No wonder the world hates us.

Name Withheld

My Second Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 3:39 PM

Subject: Re: I thought you might be interested in this

Well, for my money, and in my audio teaching on Revelation.  Babylon is the Apostasy.  Her sin is "fornication."  I think that is noteworthy. 

 

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, ....

 

I always wondered why it was "fornication" and not adultery. I think Jesus was saying that if you married a girl whom you expected to be a virgin, and you found she was not, it was acceptable to divorce her.  That started a line of thinking for me about the bride of Christ.

 

Babylon is described as a fornicator and not an adulteress.  It is because the bride of Christ is not yet married to him.  We are espoused.  I believe  "Mystery Babylon" to be a false church that arises from the apostasy. Her sin is fornication because she was espoused to Christ.  Five of the seven candlesticks are removed out of their place. She rides the beast.  The miracles which the beast performs, seduce her into accepting the serpent as her husband.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

I believe Babylon represents those people who had claimed Christ, but, for whatever specific reasons, (especially because God's grace was not upon them), will be found wanting and will have taken the false Christ (the King of Babylon) for her husband and forsaken Christ.

 

Revelation 18:7 ...for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

 

The reference to widowhood is interesting.  I think this denial has something to do with the way the apostate church regards those who deny the false Christ.  Those who still look for the return of our crucified lord are mocked prophetically as widowed virgins.

 

I resist attempt to identify the symbolic powers in revelation with political powers visible in the earth today.  But I liked your take on Gog and Magog because I felt like it freed the idea from a geographical restriction.  I don't think it is so much the city of London as it is the earthly powers that make their home there.  Gog and Magog does not seem to be a geographical power, but a combination of powers.

 

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog,

 

It is possible from this verse to see Magog as being all the powers of the earth which oppose God, residing in the four corners of the earth. Ezekiel identifies Gog as coming out of the North, but nations such as Persia Ethiopia and Libya are also included with them covering all four corners of the compass relative to Israel.   So Gog is a power over these powers and forms a confederacy of gentile nations against Israel.  I figure whenever all the nations rise against Isreal, whatever power leads that is Gog and Magog.

 

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: 

 

Doubtless, the leading power of Gog and Magog is a power seated in the North.

 

Emailer's Second Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 3:51 PM

Subject: Re: I thought you might be interested in this

Good take on it.

Then who is the United States of America?

Is America in Bible prophecy?

Were does America fit in?

My Third Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 4:16 PM

Subject: Re: I thought you might be interested in this

"Old Duffer" eh?  (This was his handle on theseason.org) I saw you had your first reply.  Basically, more 19th century scholars all following Gesenius  ""prince of Meshek"—rosh meshek in Hebrew—sounded suspiciously like Russia and Moscow" 

 

They do not apply logic to sources that agree with Murray.  Like I said in our original exchange, Rosh is used dozens of times in Ezekiel, but they only want to translate it "Russia"  in Ch 38,  And the fact that you traced the term Russia back to it's Viking roots has absolutely no effect, because some dude working in the 19th century (a century filled with bad ideas based on incomplete information and idealism) says otherwise.  I'll be watching.

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 4:32 PM

Subject: Re: I thought you might be interested in this

Here is where I think America fits into bible prophecy:

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

 

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 

Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

 

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 

Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

 

Revelation 18:23...for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

 

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

In the end times the United States will not have a significant individual role. The nations will be made subservient to the beast.  America, as a nation, will just be another vassal state.  Our dominance in world politics is not going to continue. 

 

You never really read much about the Mongols in bible prophecy, but, back in their day, they were hot candidates for "Gog and Magog"  its part of the hazard of interpreting bible prophecy in the false light of current events.  The major pitfall being the common assumption that the current times are the end times.  That is one big assumption.

 

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini

Emailer's Third Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:06 PM

Subject: Re: I thought you might be interested in this

I added to the thread........after doing a Google search I finally found the origin of where Rosh became Russia in 1825!

 An Additional Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:16 PM

Subject: Re: I thought you might be interested in this

I agree. USA has only been around 200-300 years. Before then it was the British Empire.  Spain had 150-200 years run as the world power.  France for a very short time under Napoleon.  Venice was a world power in the late middle ages. Each group thought they were the ones at the time. That their empires would never end.

When the other countries around the world smarten up, and drop the US Petro Dollar, the United States will become just another base nation struggling along like Spain, Italy, Greece, or Argentina.

We are going down for sure. The question is, will it be a slow almost unbeknownst slide to obscurity, or a crashing glass window.  I think a combination of the two.

Learn to speak Chinese......

Name Withheld

An Additional Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 9:08 PM

Subject: I think I am about to be thrown out of Season.org

Paul,

The thread about Gog &Magog is starting to heat up. I think I am about to be evicted for questioning, and asking two many questions.  Check it out.

Name Withheld

My Fourth Response:

Emailer's Fourth Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:34 AM

Subject: Re: I think I am about to be thrown out of Season.org

Paul,

They banned me. I'm pretty much blocked from everything, even from viewing the site. All I can access is their home page.  I sent email asking why, no response so far.

My last two questions were:

I wanted more information about U.S. being Israel.  So I copied the 2000 census which divides the U.S. population by heritage % and country of origin then posted it.   There were over 40 heritage groups (country of origin) listed. Highest number is German.  I politely asked if "anyone" there would divide the list of people (heritage) into two groups. Based upon heritage/country of origin, and whether they were from the House of Israel, or not. I stated I thought this was a very simple question and request. Just divide into two groups, those living in the US who were Israel, from those who were not. If the USA is Israel, that should be very easy to do. A DNA test would be ideal.

Second question:

I asked for more information about the Kenites. I stated that there was so much on the forum being blamed on Kenites, that I wanted more information about Kenites. Again, I asked a simple request. I asked them to identify only 10 people in the world today who are Kenites, and explain why they believe them to be so.  If Kenites are causing all these problems, then surely it should be very easy to identify one.

I asked politely, and I never ever said anything derogatory about Pastor Arnold Murray. I only asked questions about Shepherd's Chapel Doctrine.

I was banned/blocked about 20 minutes after posting above.

Name Withheld

Name Withheld

My Fifth Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 2:31 PM

Subject: Re: I think I am about to be thrown out of Season.org

Ah. For them, there are some lines of questioning that one simply does not pursue.  I first ran into theseason.org before they had a forum.  That was back in 1998.  Reine (Shamrocked) is a nice person, but idealogically ruthless.  In those days, they had an email list and basically everyone would email the list and you would get what I think was called "the fig tree digest" or something like that, it came out two or three times a day (as I recall).  There were lots of personalities there.  I was there principally to share my first free CD of scripture songs, "The Fear of Yahveh."  It was well received, Reine even wrote a very nice letter recommending my work.   After reading the digest for a couple weeks I realized that the majority were engaged in shooting down anyone who said anything even remotely astray from lock-step unity with "PM"  (I always type out "Pastor Arnold Murray" and "The Shepherd's Chapel") there is something about calling him "PM" or "PAM" that irritates me, I don't like the secrecy of that sort of insider terminology that no one outside the group understands, plus, it is not good for getting high search engine results for my website).  You are allowed to speculate into areas that "PM" has not expressed an opinion, but you risk someone overruling you saying, "Actually, I heard "PM" say etc. etc. on that" and you would be expected to consider yourself corrected.  You are allowed to "make mistakes" but when they correct you, you are supposed to get back into line. 

 

I left the group voluntarily and told Reine privately that while I was still a student of the Chapel, I did not agree 100% with Pastor Murray's teachings and I didn't want to make any trouble for her group.  I have never spoken to them since. But after I started speaking publicly against Arnold Murray in 2007, I have gotten messages from people who were part of the group back then and have since left the group and Shepherd's Chapel.  (I have also gotten a few, "say it ain't so Paul" letters).

 

What Reine does, when someone like you makes a post, is watch the conversation, and then start to work on a single post which will end the conversation.  She does not worry about arguing with you.  All she does is wait until you start asking embarrassing questions, and then she puts up what Pastor Murray would say, and edits the conversation in such a way as to make it seem you were put to silence. Murray liked to quote this verse.

 

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

 

I think they like to think they can put their enemies to silence like that.  But what she does is actually dishonest.  That is why I never comment on their forums, because I know she will manipulate the conversation in order to score a fake "victory." She has been at this a long time, and gave herself the right to do this in her guidelines. 

 

"4. Final note: theseason.org reserves the right to remove any posts without notice to the author (or those who have replied in a thread) due to it's content which violate these community guidelines. The moderator reserves the right to suspend the posting privileges of any registered member without notice. "

 

From their perspective you attempted to cause division between the brethren. By that they mean any deviation from 100% agreement with Pastor Murray.

 

"3. No name calling or rude behavior. No discriminatory labeling, mocking, ridiculing, sarcasm, or exploitation of others. No personal attacks, or threats. This includes those who continually cause division among the brethren.  These things will not be tolerated.

 

Your two questions were guaranteed to make them mad.  Part of the problem was that you changed subjects.  That is going to tip Reine off.  If you had posted a separate thread about American ethnicity, you might have gotten a conversation.

 

But the Israel question was very insightful.  After all, if we are talking about the carnal seed of Israel, it should be a simple matter of genetics.  (And whenever I get into genetics they find themselves out of their depth, because they do not have much understanding in how genetics work)  Even so, if it is an ethnic matter surely they could divide things based on ethnicity (Mentioning Germany was going to be a problem,  since Murray teaches that (true) Judah is Germany)

 

The last question was also a good one (but since it was off topic it sent up even more red flags).  Even though it was not you who changed the subject!

 

I recently concluded a conversation in which someone questioned something I had said.  What I had said was that Pastor Murray set himself above Christ and his apostles by teaching that it was wrong to be specifically critical of other ministries and denominations.  There was a time when Arnold was more open in his declarations that the Jews are the children of the devil.  But through his television ministry his students have become secretive about it, and many of them are actually ignorant of that teaching because they do not take Murray's hints.  But Christ himself was not at all shy about pointing out who among his adversaries was "of the devil"   You would think that they, (having this knowledge and also considering that they declare this affliction to be  a matter of ancestry) would be able to name Kenites.  We are not asking them to kill Kenites, or damn them to hell.  Just identify them so that they may repent, as Christ did.  They seem to know what the Kenites are up to, so it follows that they know who these people are, but it is a big secret.

 

I don't know if you read this page on my website, but it explains it ALL --->  http://oraclesofgod.org/1980/jews.htm

 

 

The conversation went to a new topic after this message and is continued in Email #221a.

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