"I recommend that you stay far away from this man and the Shepherd's Chapel." - off site link carm.org
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My Father Has Been Brainwashed by Murray
Question/Comment:
----- Original Message -----From: Name WithheldTo: Paul StringiniSent: Monday, August 27, 2012 9:30 AMSubject: ARNOLD MURRAY
----- Original Message -----From: Paul StringiniTo: Name WithheldSent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:24 PMSubject: Re: ARNOLD MURRAYHi Name Withheld, I've been a bit busy and I'm sorry it has taken me longer than usual to reply.first, I would like to know if there is any info more that you can give me about this creep,Well, there are a lot of emails on my website, I know it is a lot of material to go through, and I have not exactly organized it very well, but my work against Arnold Murray is really just a secondary part of my ministry, I'm primarily a musician and bible teacher. I wanted to mention that in passing because you may find my musical works edifying http://oraclesofgod.orgI do know a few things that are not printed on my website. I don't print these things because they are not really good arguments against his teachings and that is where I believe he is weakest. I will share a few with you but I do not suggest you use these on your father, they will have the exact opposite effect.Personal attacks are going to tend to put the Shepherd's Chapel people even more on the defensive and I try to avoid making them. There are some anecdotes I have collected from people who have had negative personal experiences with Pastor Murray. Nothing really earth-shattering. One woman tells of how after receiving a very kind reception at the Chapel, Arnold, "threw himself at her in a hotel room," (this was after the death of his wife). And that I can put down to human frailty, I'm a man and I understand that I can also be tempted, (she said in her account that) he did not try to rape her or anything close to that. What is far worse is that (she claimed that) when she refused him, the people at the Chapel all reportedly treated her like trash, and I suppose that is where he would become a conscienceless creep in my book.I never used that story. (though I do not have any problem repeating it in the proper context) He said, she said, and though I believe her. I feel that because Arnold stakes his whole reputation on his teaching, that is the place in which he is most vulnerable.I have already had many people accuse me of sour grapes, but the truth is that I never had a bad personal experience with Pastor Murray, When I visited Gravette in 1995, he and his family were very nice to my wife and I, I still remember when he baptized me, it still touches me when I remember the way he anointed the scars on my arm. I do not have a personal grudge against the guy, for me it has always been about the doctrine. Well... I suppose that was totally true until about a year ago when an old chapel friend of mine really got mistreated by the Murray family. Granted, my friend is mentally ill, but only slightly and he was the most fervent supporter of the Chapel for 20 years and was the most adept person I have ever known at describing and defending their doctrine. The fact that he is mentally ill may diminish what happened to him in the eyes of some, but they (at the chapel) knew something was wrong with him, and he was there looking for help. I'm not going to go into that one because its too long and complicated.There are also many things to be said about the finances of the Chapel, Arnold is always bragging how he never "begs," but his fans seem to think that he "never asks for money" I have heard them say that many times, but he constantly asks for money, every time he is on the air he is selling CD's and DVD's, books, and asking for donations. "I never beg" is just one of his con-man tricks.Arnold Murray uses common confidence tricks to make his followers think they can trust him. "Don't trust this man or any other man without checking him out...etc" Arnold talks about how he has prayed that the lord would take away his ministry before he would let Arnold mislead anyone. Isn't that convenient? God would never be so cruel! Arnold must be true! God would never let precious Arnold's arrogance and pride lead him to make his own imaginations into doctrines! Or would he? It all seems innocent to them, but they don't see how they are being conned. They want to trust him. They "check him out" by doing exactly what he tells them. IE They check him out in exactly the way he instructs them to check him out. He does not teach the proper use of the Strong's concordance and so people go there and they think they have confirmed what he was saying.Your Dad believes that he is following the bible and doing a very good job of it, this is where he is weak, because it is not true and it can be demonstrated, and the way you have to go about this is not by attacking Murray but by really undermining the truth of what Arnold teaches, to do that you have to first understand the teaching they way your dad does. If you really want to help him, you have to start by understanding what he believes.Some people try to just collect facts about what Arnold teaches and then throw those up to his students as if they were not prepared for that kind of assault. It won't work unless the person is a new student who has not yet been indoctrinated in the bizarre teachings of Arnold Murray AND if the person is willing to believe you (some people just can't believe that Arnold teaches that the Jews are the offspring of the devil).If someone came up to you on the street and said "Eve had sex with the devil," you would be instantly incredulous, that would not be effective, Arnold is effective because he does not just come out and say it without some extensive preparation. You might be listening and absorbing things from him for weeks before you start getting led down the path to accepting the idea that Eve had sex with Satan. That is why I get emails from people who say, "I have never heard Pastor Murray spout such filth!" By that I know that this person has not been a student for very long, or is not very attentive to what is being said.Arnold is actually more dangerous to people that are somewhat clever(or think they are), because he is a flatterer, and clever people are vulnerable to flattery, because they already know they are smart. They like to be recognized as such, and he makes you feel smart because you can read between the lines just like he does. "have you known since you were a child that there was more to God's word than you were being taught?" It is exciting to have the guy on TV tell you that you are one of God's elect that stood against Satan in the world that was...proven by the fact that you agree with him. It is the same thing that tempted Eve, the promise of secret knowledge, man craves secret knowledge, and that is what Arnold peddles. He peddles the secrets he has read between the lines of the scriptures. But the part you need to hammer are the lines themselves.I think you are headed in the right direction. The area that I believe he is most weak in is the way he reads Genesis. The text of Genesis can be used to hammer at Arnold's credibility, because the way he turns Genesis into a completely different text is breathtaking. If the serpent was not a serpent, then the text of Genesis is highly misleading, if the tree did not "grow from the ground" then why does it specifically say that it did? As you know, I have written extensively on this subject, ( I just need to edit and compile all this writing... I hope I will have the time and means to do this, pray for my ministry, and check out my new album (I will be launching it in a few days) if my album does well, my ministry will finally have the support I need.I'm going to give you a link to a page which you probably have already seenI'm a bit behind on posting writings because work on my new album has been a priority.This is one of the keystones of Arnold Murray's doctrine, if you undermine this, the whole thing starts to crumble, that is the best I can offer on that front.second, why has he not been brought to public attention about what he is doing. why is there not some kind of Christian group out there that has not publicly discredited himI was actually interviewed by the Southern Poverty Law Center (which I did not know is reputed to be a Jewish communist group, not that I care, but I'm sure that my enemies find that delicious) I wish i could have said a few of the things I have learned since then, such as the confidence tactics. I remember the interviewer remarked how he noticed Arnold "did not ask for money" like other ministers. But he and I were both duped. Reverse psychology: don't ever underestimate its power. "I never beg...." Of course you don't....The Christian research institute put out a paper on Murray years ago, and I remember reading it back when I was a student, and it had absolutely no effect on me because they basically employ the same failing strategy I mentioned before. They basically listed things that Arnold teaches and said they were wrong without actually taking any time to get into explaining from the bible why he was wrong."Mr. Murray denies the doctrine of the Trinity, denies the existence of hell and the rapture, and states that Eve had sexual relations with the devil and that this union produced Cain." - off site link carm.orgThis is recycled material. CRI did it first and it has not changed much. 18 years ago that was not a very accurate description of what Arnold teaches, and it is even worse today. Example: People who listen to Murray will hear him talk all about the Trinity, so when you say "he denies the Trinity" they think you are a liar. The research organizations don't seem to realize (or care enough to update their canned responses) that Arnold has co-opted the term "Trinity" and calls his non-Trinitarian view of God, ta-da! the Trinity! So people who listen to him, but are ignorant of what the historical doctrine of the Trinity is, think that he teaches the Trinity, even though he really doesn't, it is just another version of the shell game.
With the hell reference, that is TOTALLY inaccurate, (or at best incomplete) any chapel student would laugh at that one. And the part about Cain is true, but they are relying on the shock factor, that is not going to help someone who already believes that eating fruit is a euphemism for Eve and Satan having sex (but (they would say) in the ORIGINAL TEXT it is all so very very clear, check it out, don't take my word for it, NO! Don't trust any man, certainly not this man, without checking him out in God's word!) That is how the con is run.I get lots of mail from loved ones of folks who have been sucked into the Murray vortex and that kind of "help" is absolutely useless. It is somewhat irritating to me when I think of all the funding those research organizations get, and all they can come up with are some half-true mischaracterizations of Arnold Murray's teachings and statements of disapproval.
So I guess his advice would be to stay away from your dad, because your dad is part of the shepherd's chapel. And that might be good advice, because without solid doctrine you might get sucked in yourself and they are not in the business of preparing you for that sort of challenge.
Straw men are easy to knock down, but the friends of the real McCoy are not impressed. In other words, in order to combat Murray, you can't just rely on information about the facts of they way so-called "orthodox" Christians view his teachings. Arnold Murray ATTRACTS people that are suspicious and mistrusting of mainstream Christianity, and maybe there is something to be suspected and mistrusted, I don't trust them, so making appeals to their orthodox authority is probably a BAD strategy.But this is absolutely true and a good assessment:Mr. Murray supports his off-base theological positions by interpreting verses in light of his pre-conceived ideas, sometimes stripping biblical verses of their context. He also selectively appeals to the Strong's concordance, cites what Greek and Hebrew words mean, and weaves his theological positions into the text. In reality, all he has done is justify his ideas through his unsound interpretive techniques. off site link carm.orgThat is your starting point, but it is not enough to say that he does this, you have to de3monstrate HOW he does this. That page functions fine as a warning to otherwise solid believers, but if you want to help your dad, I'll try to help you however I can. But you have to start out arming yourself, once you get the general idea and how to fight it, I can help you with any specific you might need a leg-up on, but there is no guarantee. Still you don't want to do anything less than everything you can for your father. You probably won't need my help after you get going.am at a loss on how to help my dad. on went on Murray's facebook and put some of your info about the serpent seed doctrine, oddly enough, I got no responses, I did not leave your name because I know how his followers can be...They probably already knew who it was, When I came out against Pastor Murray, I did it in my own name, that makes it more powerful. That is why I got interviewed, because I was not using a handle or anything. I say what i say publically and count it joy when they tell me I'm a Kenite, I only feel bad for them. So you can tell them its me, they might even go to my website, but most of them already know, my name has been out there for over five years and I have been reviled and celebrated on a thousand chat channels. People have used my writings many times and I'm very pleased because I really want to see people get free from those doctrines.but I beg you, anything you can help me with please doI hope it was some help, even though I'm pretty sure this was more sympathy than help. If you have a more specific question I would be glad to try my best to help you. We can't force people to listen. All I can really tell you is to keep it up and be diligent, the door is opened to the one who knocks. Learn the tactics of the enemy and expose them. Learn the doctrines of the enemy and how to undermine them. If you got your dad to read my writings, that would never be as powerful as you taking the time to understand what he believes yourself and from your own mouth persuading him of the truth.Sincerely,Paul Stringini
----- Original Message -----From: Name WithheldTo: Paul StringiniSent: Monday, October 01, 2012 6:51 PMSubject: thank you
Thank you for your reply. I have been all over your website and I am quite thankful to read what you have there. I did do an experiment, I attacked his doctrines on his facebook page to see how is followers would react..I was a Kenite lol, along with some other things, but I found that the followers are very hostile about Murray as my father also is. I did do some investigating on some of the things that were on your site, and true enough, I went to the Arkansas public records and lo and behold, there is financial transactions from shepherds chapel to soldiers of the cross...And, this is just something far out there but is it possible that Murray is the same Murray involved with Alan Turing? I stumbled on that article and age wise, it would put Arnold Murray to be the age or pretty close to the age of this 18 year old Murray involved with Turing...probably not but its worth a shot...I will say, my father is not book smart whatsoever, in fact I don't even think that he can read, but goes by memorization to be quite honest. so I believe he also obtains the some what illiterate group as well. When I left that post I left on his facebook and got attacked, My father read it and actually told me I was not welcome at his house anymore, that went on for a few weeks..but my family sees how bad he is influenced by him. I have tried the "lets sit down and talk about Murray's doctrine" together, and no matter how or what I say and show where he is wrong, it seems my dad has a logical reasoning from Murray. for instance when I told him that able is not in the genealogy of Adam as well, he said that was because Able was dead already, but Cain was not in the genealogy because he was not Adams. If, I was able to find some written proof on Murray that was very damaging then I would have half a chance..I tried to pull up where he was investigated by Arkansas Democrat -Gazette, but that page cannot be found in the internet anymore, just a sentence about him paying 75 grand to be on television, do you know anything about that? I really do deeply appreciate you getting back to me on that. I have your website saved to my desktop because it was very informative. anything else you can help me with I will be very grateful, thank you for taking this time out for me and GOD BLESS YOU
----- Original Message -----From: Paul StringiniTo: Name WithheldSent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:44 AMSubject: Re: thank you
Hi, I'm glad to have been of some service to you. I'm trying to update my page and do it more often. I have a ton of email to add to my site. I'm over a year behind on posting emails but I'm trying to fix that.There are a few nice people that follow Arnold Murray, I was one of them, and I remember myself and others being shocked at the behavior of some. You tend to hear mostly from the nasty ones. And I do believe that Arnold draws nasty people and that his teachings can cultivate a nasty attitude. But I have had a few talk civilly to me.Your father is a man, and like many men, like me, he has his share of pride and he does not like to feel like he is being pushed around. When I was a follower of Murray, even after I began seriously questioning the core teachings, I would have still had a knee-jerk reaction to resist the arguments of anyone who argued with me especially if they pulled an end-around on me, by that I mean that if they. There is a prideful urge to resist being overpowered by logic or reason, when you think you have all the logic and reason on your side.
And it is one thing if it is just a discussion about doctrine, the followers of Murray can be downright civil when they feel that they are not detected. What I mean is that when people make it about Murray, and when they make it about "Murray's doctrine," they get agitated. They like to operate "covertly" (as Murray would say) they don't like for people to know where they are coming from, they like to slowly introduce their ideas so that they can build the case for their beliefs from the ground up. When someone knows right out of the gate that it is about sex with Satan, it is hard for them to talk about the serpent seed. The Shepherd's Chapel thrives on ignorance and subtlety.
I get quite a few letters from people who say, "I have been listening to him for two months and I have never heard him spouting that garbage you say he teaches!" I never get a letter from someone who says, "I've been a student of the chapel for years and you are just a making things up about my teacher." Arnold has (or had) tapes on exactly how to go about slowly introducing certain ideas to people without shocking them into resistance. It is a far cry from the call we have received to "boldly proclaim" the Gospel.You mentioned Cain, I don't remember if I mentioned this, but Adam IS in Cain's genealogy, never give in to Murray's shell game, so much of it is an outright lie.Genesis 4
1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.See the parallel wording? If Cain is not in Adam's genealogy then Enoch is not in Cain's genealogy. Verses 2-16 of Genesis 4 are what is called a parenthesis.Adam had many sons and daughters, but they are not listed in The book of the generations of ADAM in Genesis 5 because Genesis 5 traces the descent of NOAH, and since Cain is not one of NOAH's ancestors, he is not listed in Genesis 5. That is also why Abel is not listed. It is very simple. Cain has a genealogy and Adam is IN it.You don't understand because you need eyes to see and ears to hear that Genesis 4:1 is a deception and a lie straight from the pits of "God's word." That is not how babies are made! (heavy sarcasm) The truth is that Adam's "knowing his wife" had nothing to do with how Cain was conceived, because we all know that the stork brings babies and the stork is a symbol of satanic power.Pardon me. Sometimes I have to let go a little. I don't recommend using that on your dad, but use your own discretion. It may be best to let it rest for a little bit. Like I said, if he thought he figured it out on his own he'd be fine, but because he sees this as a threat against his good judgment and discernment, he does not feel safe allowing any possibility that he might of put his eggs in the wrong basket. You might give it some time so he does not hunker down for a seige. Tell him "eyes to see" are a gift and if you can't see "the truth" he should be praying for you.The flattery of Murray. If your dad is on the illiterate side (my dad only completed the 9th grade) then you have to realize that Murray has been flattering him. Murray totally butters up people who start to see things his way. He calls people who disagree with him "biblically illiterate" and if your dad is nearly illiterate, this flattery may represent to him a precious affirmation that he is not a "dummy" and admitting he is wrong may require more humility than he can bring to bear.I would say the best things you have to say and then give it some time. One plants another waters, you never know what may have already sunk in and he may not want to admit it. The hard part is that if he is not reading the bible on his own it may be difficult to break away from Murray's conditioned patterns of interpretation. It is like poking at a turtle to get him to come out of his shell, it won't work. he will fight you just because it may make him feel righteous to resist.I actually know very little about Murray's background outside of his teachings, as far as the 75k to get on television, I have no idea what that means, let alone if it is true, I'm guessing they pay a lot more than that because he is on a whole lot of stations.I know all kinds of anecdotes that I don't print because they don't really convince hardcore chapel people who think that people will say anything to discredit their teacher.Alan Turing? I doubt it. Arnold served in Korea and I doubt that he would have been that same Arnold Murray, the technician at Manchester University, who got caught with Turing, and then join the US Marines. Gays were excluded from service back then, and Turing was famous, if he was that Murray I doubt he would have gotten in the Marines. Plus, Gays have trouble keeping their secrets, I have received a first hand account of Arnold throwing himself at a lovely mature widow (after the death of his wife, and he accepted the rebuff), but never at men of any age.Sincerely
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