----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:36 PM

Subject: Shepherd's Chapel

 

I want to thank you for your intent to enlighten people with knowledge.  I think it is very important that there should always be people trying to expose what they believe to be falseness in our world.  People should always strive to keep their "eyes wide open" and not let any person or denomination limit their options.

I am a Shepherd's Chapel viewer and while you have put up a good "fight", I'm not convinced that there is nothing to be gained in watching the show.  I enjoy hearing the bible read to me.  Until I can find a better alternative that feeds me what I want to learn and hear, I will continue to be a viewer.

Let me tell you a little about myself. I grew up in a protestant church that bored the u-know-what out of me.  When I moved out of my parents house, I started looking around and exploring other denominations.  Eventually I found myself in what I consider a real cult, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  I was a gung-ho, super committed member who had no problem living the lifestyle, I lived their rules easily.  I wasn't looking to leave when my eyes were opened.  It took me a while to finally dare to look outside the box they try to keep their members in, however I did finally find my way out.  While you might say that I have walked into another, I don't look at it that way.

I am under no obligation to watch The Shepherd's Chapel.  I am under no obligation to financially support The Shepherd's Chapel.  That is something I can really appreciate.  I take what I want from the program and leave the rest behind.  Pastor Murray, like everyone else, has had moments when he opened his mouth and said things he shouldn't have said.   I don't agree with everything he or they say.  I find I disagree more with people such as Jim Bakker, Joyce Meyers, and all of the many other television preachers out there who seem more interested in "your" money than anything else.  I don't want to watch a television pastor OR go to a local church and hear a local pastor, ramble on and on, never really focusing on the actual content of the Bible.   I have flipped the channels and the others leave me either bored or disgusted.

You might encourage me to find a local bible teaching church in my area.  First of all, I have tried.  I have found so many hypocrites and judgmental people for the most part.  I do not believe I need to be baptized into a particular denomination that claims to be the right church, to go to Heaven.  I believe in John 3:16 and I believe in God.  I haven't limited myself on the variety of denominations, I've tried all but Jehovah's Witnesses (don't want to even go there), Jewish practices, Amish services, and the Scientologists.  I'm sure I've missed some other one of the lesser known churches.  I simply do not believe in church anymore.  I do not believe that attendance, membership, or graduating from special classes is going to help me in my journey through life and to/with God.  I do not believe that any particular denomination is the "right" or "only" way to God.  I think "denominations" are just different man's interpretation of what they think people should do, when it comes to God. 

I believe that most churches do not use the money that people give to them, responsibly.  I do not believe that this money is used in the manner in which God intended it to be used.   I would rather give money to someone I can clearly see is in genuine need of help, by either paying for something they need, or just plain giving it to them in their time of need.  The United States has many people in it who truly need help and assistance.  I think that is a better way to "spend" our tithing, in a world such as we are in, today.

One thing I have learned from the L.D.S. church is that no matter how "good" something looks today, it isn't always the reality.  Another thing I've learned is that I will never again take any "man's" word, nor the teachings of any denomination, nor the word of any group on this Earth, as 100% accurate and absolute.   ALL denominations have corruption somewhere. 

The only thing I know with an absolute 100% assuredly is that I DO believe in God.  I do believe in Jesus and that God sent His Son to die so that we can all have everlasting life. (Again, John 3:16)  I know that God is more interested in my personal relationship with Him, than anything else.  I am a sinner and I make lots of mistakes and I strive to repent and want to be a better person. 

Again I want to thank you for continuing your quest to expose the fruitful works of darkness.  I AM curious, however, if you have done any work on the Mormons (L.D.S. church).  Having "been there & done that", I am always interested in solidifying my decision to leave, even more firmly. 

Sincerely,
Name Withheld
(please do not use my name or email)

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 3:27 PM

Subject: Re: Shepherd's Chapel

Hi,

 

Thanks for writing, I appreciate the time you have taken to express your views.  I'm going to respond in a point by point fashion, this is my way of demonstrating that I'm listening to you.

 

I want to thank you for your intent to enlighten people with knowledge.  I think it is very important that there should always be people trying to expose what they believe to be falseness in our world.  People should always strive to keep their "eyes wide open" and not let any person or denomination limit their options.

 

You are welcome, thank you for saying so.  As I have told people, I do this because this is what I love and this is what I believe in, they don't have to agree with me.  I usually find that the biggest hypocrites are the people who write me to tell me that I should stop being critical of Arnold Murray, if that is how they feel, then they should take their own advice and stop being critical of me. 

 

I am a Shepherd's Chapel viewer and while you have put up a good "fight", I'm not convinced that there is nothing to be gained in watching the show.  I enjoy hearing the bible read to me.  Until I can find a better alternative that feeds me what I want to learn and hear, I will continue to be a viewer.

 

Well, I'm not sure that I have said that there is "nothing to be gained."  One may learn many things from all kinds of experiences.  Good and bad; I have learned good things from bad experiences, even from my experience with Arnold Murray, but this is usually what they call "learning the hard way"

 

You made some interesting statements in that paragraph which you ought to consider.  'That feeds me what I want to learn and hear" I'm not going to play gotcha with that statement, I do not view you as an adversary.  You want to learn and hear the truth, no doubt.  But how do we know that what we want to hear is actually what we ought to hear?  We ought to listen also to things we may not want to hear.  In many places the scripture indicates that what we want to hear and what we ought to hear are not always in agreement.  The prophets often were in the position of telling people things they did not want to hear.

 

I don't have any specifics in your case, it is just that if Arnold Murray is saying what you want to hear, then that causes me some concern, because I also used to want to hear what he had to say, and now I believe that his appeal to me was based more on the fact that I liked his story, attitude, and "act,"  than on an objective evaluation of whether his interpretations were sound scripturally.

 

But really, what is the big deal?  A little leaven leaven's the whole lump?  Do we really take that seriously?  Either make the tree good and its fruit good or make the tree evil and its fruit evil? Was Christ such a simpleton?  Are we wiser today who are sophisticated enough to know that no one can have the truth without a little false doctrine mingled in.  Is there always a little leaven in our doctrine?

 

I believe there are many reasons why most denominations, churches, and ministries are corrupted by false doctrine.  And the why is not so important as the fact that it is so.  But should we accept this for ourselves.  Just a fable or two, just a lie or two, just a little wishful thinking in doctrine, just a little building up of imaginations. 

 

I don't accept that for myself and I do not encourage others to accept that. But I am glad you are so open minded.  Since you like to hear the scriptures read to you, then let me introduce you to my bible studies. I say that you owe it to the truth to give it a listen.  They are all free to download or listen to online http://oraclesofgod.org/studies/studies.html I go through the books, chapter by chapter and line by line, just like a certain someone.  I recommend Matthew as a beginning point.  There really is more to God's word than what you have been taught and this is the stuff we had better not miss.  I am more concerned with doctrines that help you to inherit eternal life than with the doctrines of Arnold Murray which puff some people up (but not you apparently, I mean that)

 

Let me tell you a little about myself. I grew up in a protestant church that bored the u-know-what out of me.  When I moved out of my parents house, I started looking around and exploring other denominations.  Eventually I found myself in what I consider a real cult, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  I was a gung-ho, super committed member who had no problem living the lifestyle, I lived their rules easily.  I wasn't looking to leave when my eyes were opened.  It took me a while to finally dare to look outside the box they try to keep their members in, however I did finally find my way out.  While you might say that I have walked into another, I don't look at it that way.

Well, Arnold Murray is more of a cult of personality, you can like him and listen to him without actually going off the deep end, people do it every day.  His doctrines are also heretical, but you can take that or leave it.  Some people swallow it hook line and sinker.  You are not one of those people.  I know how it is, I remember how it was went I went to my first Passover meeting in 1995, I was really excited to go and meet "God's elect"  you know, THE PEOPLE, but I was really disappointed because most of the people were there to see "God's Elect"  you know, Arnold Murray,  I met a few people with their heads screwed on half-way straight, like me but that experience changed the way I looked at Arnold Murray.

 

The thing is, I was not really getting it.  The Christianity I was being sold was a cheap imitation.  I'm not going to preach to you here, but please, give my bible studies a try, If you really believe that Arnold Murray can't hurt you then, surely, what harm can I do?

 

I am under no obligation to watch The Shepherd's Chapel.  I am under no obligation to financially support The Shepherd's Chapel.  That is something I can really appreciate.  I take what I want from the program and leave the rest behind. 

 

Everyone loves a buffet, but is that really how things are supposed to be? 

 

"Whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, may pick and choose as he liketh from among my doctrine."

 

Is that the way Jesus presented the Gospel?

 

I'll tell you this, that the main reason you find yourself picking trough things is because there is so much stuff being added to Christianity these days.  They add on their own rules, they add on their doctrines, but they neglect the things that are most needful.  I believe that by focusing on the things people really need to hear, that there is precious little left to pick and choose through, pure and unleavened doctrine ought to be accepted and acceptable.

 

You have to pick through what you hear because of all the leaven that has been added.  Corruption.

 

Doctrine saves, it is what we believe, we do not know Jesus except by some doctrine or other, except by some scripture or other,  in this we need to guard against the corruption of men entering in.

 

2Timn 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

2 Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

 

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

 

Pastor Murray, like everyone else, has had moments when he opened his mouth and said things he shouldn't have said.  

 

If that was the case then it would be completely understandable, I'm certain we all make mistakes, but a slip or an error is different than die-cast corruption.  Do you know how much I get mocked by his students for believing that Adam and Eve ate a piece of fruit in the garden?  Never mind what the bible says...

 

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

 

I read that and I believe that, as it is written.  Period. And they mock me for that, because that is the way their teacher behaves. If I think that Adam and Eve ate a piece of fruit, then I am an idiot worthy of mockery who is biblically illiterate and has not learned to "read between the lines." We are supposed to be casting down imaginations, the ministry of Arnold Murray exalts imaginations and innuendos. 

 

I don't agree with everything he or they say.  I find I disagree more with people such as Jim Bakker, Joyce Meyers, and all of the many other television preachers out there who seem more interested in "your" money than anything else.  I don't want to watch a television pastor OR go to a local church and hear a local pastor, ramble on and on, never really focusing on the actual content of the Bible.   I have flipped the channels and the others leave me either bored or disgusted.

I'm not a fan of any of those ministers either.  I generally take the view that if they are on TV or the radio that they can be presumed to be ministers of Satan.

 

I don't attend "Church"  I don't really believe in that concept.  I do believe in getting together with other believers, but I see no imperative in the scripture for the "church service."  It is a tradition.  So it is disposable.

 

You might encourage me to find a local bible teaching church in my area. 

 

I do not.

 

First of all, I have tried.  I have found so many hypocrites and judgmental people for the most part. 

 

Ok, sorry in advance, I can't help it, but aren't you being a bit judgmental? 

 

Everybody has to do judgment, it just depends how you do it and knowing what is left up to God and what is demanded of us to judge for ourselves.  You shall know them by their fruits, we have to judge, but we do not make stuff up either, God is judge. I don't say adultery is a sin, God says so.  I don't condemn false teachers, God does.  I just preach the gospel and call people to repent.

 

I do not believe I need to be baptized into a particular denomination that claims to be the right church, to go to Heaven. 

 

I don't even believe in "going to heaven,"  Everyone seems to want to go there.  But where exactly did Jesus ever preach about "going to heaven?" 

 

"If any man believe on me, he will go to heaven."   I don't recall him saying that, or anything like it...

 

From what I understand after we rise from the dead, the kingdom of heaven will encompass everything.  I do not really expect to ever "go to heaven."  I will die and then I will rise from death to live eternally, I may visit heaven, I suppose, but I never think of getting there as being the main point of my faith.  I believe so that I may inherit eternal life.

 

I believe in John 3:16 and I believe in God. 

 

That is a fine start, but John 3:16 is not enough.  Who is this Jesus?  Who is this God?  What does it mean to believe in him?  Is it enough just to believe that he existed?  That he rose?  Who rose? The demons also believe and tremble.  We go from faith to faith, from righteousness to righteousness.  I want more than John 3:16  I want  1 John 3:6 (Just move the digit 1 over)

 

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 

Do you believe that?  I do. A lot of people will start making excuses and saying how it means something else.  Don't let the snakes fool you.  We say that we know him, but we lie.  Tell me you know Jesus and I will know you for a liar.  I won't tell you that I know him.  But I like to believe that he knows me.

 

Phil3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 

I have a saying about modern Christianity, they treat the faith of Christ like it is the Special Olympics or something,  They are all lined up for the race, the starting gun is fired, they all declare their faith, sit down on the ground and declare victory. 

 

2 tim 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

 

We have to run the race according to the rules, this is not the Special Olympics here, we do not sit down at the starting line and declare victory,  do you want to be sure of your salvation?  I'll tell you what, God is sure, he knows all about your salvation and my salvation, it is all written before him.  But me, I need convincing, this is how I get convinced of my salvation:

 

2 peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

When I see all those things happening to me, I assure myself of my salvation.  When I see the finish line, I know my race is nearly run.  Salvation is the END of your faith,

 

1Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

But they taught us that salvation was the beginning of faith, and that is not totally untrue, because it was determined before the foundations of the world by God, but we are not God, and we have a race to run, even if God knows then end, I do not presume to know his mind.

 

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

God knows those that are his.  I don't so I act accordingly.  Not with pointless self-assurance.  And dangerous complacency.

 

 I haven't limited myself on the variety of denominations,

 

From my perspective you have limited yourself, not intentionally, what choice did we have when we knew nothing? There is precious little difference in those denominations, they all miss the essential point of being a Christian,  they are most anxious to satisfy and pacify, to assure you that you are saved, "WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?" and they want it to be accomplished in 15 minutes or less or have all the rules and reg's fit on an 8x11 sheet of paper, they want to get you to sit down at the starting line, and declare victory, to serve you up to their master.  Lambs for the slaughter. 

 

The only difference with Arnold Murray is that he has more titillating things to say, He turns boring old church into an ear scratching festival.  Kenites, sex with Satan, preexistence in an unknown world, flying saucers, giants,  and to be saved all you need is John 3:16, after that come here and look at this pornography good old Arnold found in Genesis.  Really helping people.

 

I've tried all but Jehovah's Witnesses (don't want to even go there), Jewish practices, Amish services, and the Scientologists.  I'm sure I've missed some other one of the lesser known churches.  I simply do not believe in church anymore. 

 

Very good.

 

 I do not believe that attendance, membership, or graduating from special classes is going to help me in my journey through life and to/with God.  I do not believe that any particular denomination is the "right" or "only" way to God.  I think "denominations" are just different man's interpretation of what they think people should do, when it comes to God. 

Well, denominations are what happens when someone like Arnold Murray dies, but his ministry does not. Denominations are ways of codifying error ensuing the perpetuation of one generations mistakes into another.

 

I believe that most churches do not use the money that people give to them, responsibly.  I do not believe that this money is used in the manner in which God intended it to be used.   I would rather give money to someone I can clearly see is in genuine need of help, by either paying for something they need, or just plain giving it to them in their time of need.  The United States has many people in it who truly need help and assistance.  I think that is a better way to "spend" our tithing, in a world such as we are in, today.

From what I know, Churches spend a lot of their money paying bills and paying the professional religionist (and even small town pastors can make pretty good money!).  Beyond that, I don't know, but bigger churches are generally money pits.  The money goes to build their kingdom, more churches, bigger churches.    I'm not going to tell you what to do with your money, that is why God sends the holy spirit to lead us to do what is right.

 

One thing I have learned from the L.D.S. church is that no matter how "good" something looks today, it isn't always the reality.  Another thing I've learned is that I will never again take any "man's" word, nor the teachings of any denomination, nor the word of any group on this Earth, as 100% accurate and absolute.   ALL denominations have corruption somewhere. 

 

I don't disagree with you about denominations, but what about you?  Is there any reason you can't ferret out any corruption dwelling in your doctrine?   Denominations can't get rid of corruption, it is too complicated, their systematized religion forbids it.  At the local level, the pastor's hands are tied, he can't just change doctrine, unless he wants to break with big brother.  and even then, it gets back to the cult of personality, why is the Pastor the only one with gifts in the church these days or the right to speak?  I can believe that God will lead me to a state of incorruption, that he will show me the error of my ways.   It is not asking to much...If you dare to ask it!

 

Titus 2:7 In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine showing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

 

The only thing I know with an absolute 100% assuredly is that I DO believe in God.  I do believe in Jesus and that God sent His Son to die so that we can all have everlasting life. (Again, John 3:16) 

 

Again I say, that is not enough, we are not idle, are we? Add to your faith, build up your faith.

 

2Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

You have the promise of salvation, but there are more promises than that to believe in, do you believe also in these?

 

Don't think I'm judging you based on your words, I do not really think that your faith ends at John 3:16.  I'm just being provocative, but that is my role.  I don't want your money, or to put you in some building, but I will make you think, if you let me,  again, listen to my bible studies, you will get a new and (I think) better perspective on your faith.

 

I've been a practicing free-lance Christian for many years, so my studies can help you figure out what it is you are supposed to be doing since you know that you were not put on this earth to warm a pew.  I'm not going to lay rules on you, you don't have to make a commitment to me or my doctrine, but give it a chance and you will see.

 

I know that God is more interested in my personal relationship with Him, than anything else.  I am a sinner and I make lots of mistakes and I strive to repent and want to be a better person. 

Then my studies are just the sort of thing you will find helpful in that effort.

 

Again I want to thank you for continuing your quest to expose the fruitful works of darkness.  I AM curious, however, if you have done any work on the Mormons (L.D.S. church).  Having "been there & done that", I am always interested in solidifying my decision to leave, even more firmly. 

 

The only teacher I ever had was Arnold Murray, I did not go to bible school or anything like that. When I was 21 I was married in front of Arnold Murray's desk,  I don't really know about LDS, not having ever been a part of that movement.  I am not a researcher, I am a musician and bible teacher primarily, I mostly focus on what the faith actually is, you just ran into me based on my association with Arnold Murray.  Everything I say about Dr. Murray comes from my personal experience.  One denomination was enough, and the Shepherd's Chapel is just another denomination, just more impersonal and distant, all the closeness people feel to Arnold Murray through the TV is an illusion. 

 

I do not have an organization for you to join.  Or a place for you to meet with people , but as an experienced individual in the faith I try to give people the personal attention and respect I never got from most Pastors that I have met so if you have any questions you may write me and I will try to give you as best an answer as I can. I think you are on the right track, you just need a little push to keep going, I can only offer my website, the teachings, the music, I don't know if you are aware, but I write bible music, I put the words of the scripture into song, including whole books,  http://oraclesofgod.org/ that is actually my primary ministry.  If you can find true friends in the faith they are worth more than a hundred churches overflowing with fatted calves.

 

I do not do this professionally so I don't have as much online as i would like and I'm about a year behind on posting emails and there are things I want to write, sing... videos, I have some very good videos, I'd like to finish, I don't know when....  You should check those out too. http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulStringini  Anyways, nice to hear from you, I am at your service.

 

 

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini