A Shepherd's Chapel Student Makes a Plea for Pastor Arnold Murray and Paul Stringini Replies

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:08 PM

Subject: Re:

Name Withheld,

I appreciate the spirit in which you have written me.

The bible says that we are not to be contentious, and on the other had the bible tells us to earnestly contend for the faith. There is a time and a place for both.

I understand that you don't see anything wrong with Murray's teachings, but I do. You said:

"God will bring forth the truth if his words are wrong.."

I feel like God DID bring forth the truth. I think Arnold Murray's words are wrong, that is the truth that I believe God has brought forth to me.

You don't agree, that is the truth you believe God has brought forth to you.

I have to follow what I believe God has revealed to me. What kind of man would follow something he really believed was wrong?

The fact that you are writing me says that you think there is something wrong with what I'm doing, I accept that, but I don't agree.

Fact is this guy has a large following not because they follow him but because he helps them connect the dots.

That is part of what I don't like about Pastor Murray, I don't believe that bible is this "connect the dots" or "read between the lines." scenario. Aside from that, just going with that analogy, if he is connecting dots, I believe that the picture he is creating is not the picture intended. He does not connect the dots, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc, but 17, 93, 2, 23, 6, There are a lot of dots out there and the way he connects them disregards the intention of the one who created the picture.

Really brothers we should not be in fighting like this..

When people stray too far from the truth, we are bound to rebuke them.

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

1Tim 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2Tim 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Arnold Murray is a marked man. Most grievously, he teaches the same doctrine that Hymenaeus and Philetus taught, that the dead have already risen and are with Christ. If you have been studying with him for seven years then you know that he teaches that 1 Thess 4 means that the dead have already ascended into heaven "because they are already with him." .

I do not consider Arnold Murray to be a brother, I consider him to be an enemy, not personally, not MY enemy, but an enemy of the gospel.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

No one has gone to heaven except Christ, that is what the Apostle said. I've written about this many times. This passage is clear. It also explains the heresy of Philetus and Hymenaeus, and of Arnold Murray.

You know we are all lovers of Christ and he does mean well.

I have no doubt he "means" well.  Good intentions do not excuse anyone from responsibility for their actions.   I disagree with not only his doctrine but with his con-man tactics.   A sincere person will often justify their use of less than sincere tactics, they think it is ok to employ certain tactics, because, THEY, are sincere, THEY have the truth.

The Con in "Con-man" stands for confidence. The confidence man uses certain phrases to inspire confidence in the listener, some of these have become cliché and so they don't work well any more, phrases such as, "would I lie to you?" But this is one of Murray's confidence tactics, and they are not nice, to use these sorts of phrases, even with the sincerest intentions, takes advantage of weak and ignorant people.

"Don't trust any man, Not this man, nor any other man without checking him out in God's word." It is not the idea itself that is offensive and abusive, but the way he uses it to talk down to people and inspire confidence in himself.

"I pray that the Lord would take away my ministry before I would mislead anyone." That one is very dirty. That is a confidence tactic designed to make people have greater confidence in Murray, it serves no other purpose. It's like saying "hey, look at me, look at what a martyr I am!"

I have not listened to pastor Murray in years, but i should probably get out his cassettes (yes, I listened to him back when cassettes were still big) and I bet I could find dozens of examples, and I probably should do it, I guess Murray is lucky his ministry gets support and mine does not) Honestly, I dislike it that I made that comment, It's like saying "hey, look at me, look at what a martyr I am!" I'm trying to purge that garbage.

He is for God, Country, and the Liberty.

So am I, but that means different things to different people, in any case, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. No one makes a loaf of bread out of pure leaven, there is always a grain of truth, actually there is always mostly truth, even in the churches Murray opposes, most of what they say is the truth too, most of them are for God, Country, and (cough cough) Liberty too.

Fact is the truth be said we need more guys like this in the pulpits..

If by "like this" you mean strong male figures who speak with authority and zeal, I agree. (though I have come to see Murray as less zealous than I used to) But as far as doctrine goes, we don't need more Kenites, the world that was, and other bad doctrines. What we need is men that preach righteousness. I invite you to look at my video bible study, I'm a strong male figure who speaks with authority and zeal too, just without all the extra baggage. (Working at it)

http://oraclesofgod.org/videos/index.htm

I have a closer walk with the Lord because his teaching have inspired me to learn more..How could this ever be wrong..

The apostle Paul followed the Rabbi Gamaliel, and he was no doubt inspired by the teachings of that man because Paul was very zealous. Paul "profited in the Jews religion" above his peers. So what? Our personal commitment to a teacher or the positive effects of certain teachings are not a measure of whether or not those teachings are true. I don't grudge you for following what you believe is true, but I won't stop trying to persuade people of what I believe the truth is either. Millions of people find peace and happiness through all sorts of means, but it is all relative, it can't be relied on.

I have never heard him beg for many like the others do he is a proud American and I do really respect that..

He asks for money all the time. That is one of the best examples of how Murray uses confidence tactics and reverse psychology. Arnold Murray does not "beg," no, he does not get down on his hands and knees and weep for money. BUT WHO DOES? 95% of preachers never "BEG" for money, they usually politely ask, for money, just like MURRAY does. I remember more guys "begging" back in the 80's and there is always Robert Tilton or Benny Hinn to point the finger at.  But Arnold has his hand out CONSTANTLY. He is always asking for money, he is constantly selling books and selling CD's, "If we have helped you please help us keep coming to you." As much as he says, "I don't beg" some people get this weird Idea that he does not ask for money, but he totally does. I know where they get it, they get it from Murray's reverse psychology.

He uses this tactic to try to distinguish himself from other ministries, but all he is but this sort of self-serving comment reveals only Murray's own conceit. It is dirty.

It is the moral equivalent of sounding a trumpet before you when you do your alms. If you don't beg, then don't beg. Don't go around bellowing," I , never beg! Other preachers beg, but not ME!" Look at all the things this guy says about himself to build himself up, he loves to talk about how good he is, I would expect that from a young or inexperienced man, but after so many years to have so little sense of what it means to be humble...

Comment: I refer the reader to Email 152 for an additional point about Murray's Money Thuggery.

He speaks what he believe and supports his doctrine with the statement check me out!

"Check me out" is another confidence tactic. We are supposed to think, "Wow! If he says, "check me out," he must be pretty confident in the truth of what he is saying! Therefore he must be a trustworthy man, because he actually wants me to check him out" Yes, he may be confident, but that does not mean you should be confident in him.

Murray teaches people to "check him out" according to his own directions. He tells them to look up certain words so they look up certain words, but they do not necessarily discover the disconnect between what they are checking out and what he is saying, because he selects the evidence that you are supposed to check out. he does not say, "Check me out, go to oraclesofgod.org and see how my students do against someone who has checked me out." The plain fact is that the checking does not usually go too deep. People just follow the breadcrumb trail that Murray lays out for them. Despite all his cryptic references to 3 levels and "deeper truths. Don't know why I threw that in.

That is all more con-man tactics.

We are all on quest to find our Lord..

If that is true then why is Murray so critical of other ministries? That is another one of his reverse psychological ploys. "I never criticize other ministries!" ... except the ministries of "revolving revs," "one verse Charlie's," "fly away doctrines," "ministers who ask for money," "the biblically illiterate (ie anyone who disagrees with him)," and, "critics" No he never criticizes other ministries. That is a WHOPPER!

We have to make a distinction.  Murray is just a hypocrite about it. He likes to make you think he is "above the fray" and at the same time he goes around calling people names, and bashing their ministries, he does not have the courage to criticize another minister by name (though he did once when he read an article on TV called "Sometimes it pays to obfuscate.") instead, he hides behind his phony holier-than-thou shield of "I don't criticize other ministries." Never mind that the bible calls us to mark those that walk contrary to the doctrine we have received in Christ.

God works in some funny ways bro and he does these thing to keep our noises in the book.

Ok

Truly i have never heard this good man speak an ill word towards anyone..

Yeah, except "one verse Charlie's," "revolving rev's with backward collars," teachers of "fly away" doctrines, "the biblically illiterate,"  “yoyos,” “ratchet jaws,” I bet you could add to the list if you opened up your thinking a bit. When you see a rapture teacher, you know what Arnold says about people who teach the rapture, don't you?   When you see a guy preach for an hour based on a single verse, you know what Arnold would call that guy, don't you?

On the contrary your blog seems to berate him.

True

I see a man who love his God and his people and this nation..

I bet he loves his dog too. And children, don't forget children. I knew he was a human, but I won't excuse him, he isn't sorry.

He speaks the truth and not everyone likes it..

It's not the truth he speaks that I don't like, its all the corruption he adds to the truth, such as Kenites, sex with the serpent, the knowledge he claims to have about our deeds and preexistence in the world that was.

The biggest problem i see with you denotational folks is you argue over petty bs..

I'm not from any denomination, I don't even go to church, I don't believe in any of that. The Shepherd's Chapel is also a denomination, not officially, but in spirit. And, Oh boy, you want to talk about petty BS? Arnold intrudes into things he has not seen and makes doctrines out of things that are so thin, so suspect (that is the connecting the dots). Comment : Taking a position on a matter of petty bs is how leaven gets started. Arnold Murray's doctrine is full of such ideas. His doctrine is mostly made of ideas which do not bring the believer one inch closer to Christ but rather puff them up with false knowledge. Or "Petty bs" as he calls it.

I'm not part of any denomination or church, I don't have a label, I am one with all true believers.

This plays right into the hands of the devil himself..

I can't take that seriously. It would be sin for me to stand by and watch Murray do what he does, knowing what i know. THAT would be playing into the Devil's hands. Keeping silent about false doctrine is the Devil's work. I will not keep silence.

What is important is that we all have Yeshua/Jesus as our saviour..

Yes, and it is important which version of Jesus we follow. We do not just believe in the sound of words, but in the promises of God which are given us in Christ, and it is much more than just eternal life.

Titus2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Murray des not teach that.

Please brothers lets not berate each other but in truth debate the scriptures like our for fathers did in days gone bye..

The real problem is that people like Murray are making doctrines out of things that have no place in any debate, we should be avoiding this sort of corruption, Leaven and sticking to the pure truth of Jesus Christ, as you sort of said.

1Tim 1:1 .. Jesus Christ, which is our hope; 2... charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

I wanted to get the key points from the context, Murray is all about fables and genealogies, he is a minister of questions and division. He is to be avoided. I have marked him.

The Sadducee and Pharisees had good debates and discussions on docturn.. But they got so caught up on the bs that missed there Messiah

I suppose that is one way of putting it, that isn't exactly how I would say it, but I won't argue with you on that one.

Just saying!!! Thanks bro for listening,

And thank you for writing, I hope I've given you something to think about.

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini