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 Do you think Pastor Murray in heaven now or not?

Question/Comment: 

----- Original Message -----

From: Emailer #279

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 4:34 PM

Subject: Hi

Hey, I came across your webpage and just found out today Pastor Arnold Murray died back on Feb 12, 2014. I use to watch him and listen to him but like you became very aware of him teaching false stuff like the serpent seed crap. Do you know how he died? I was just wondering if you knew? I stopped watching him back in 2005. Do you think he's in heaven now or not? Thanks Caleb

My First Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Emailer #279 

Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 2:29 PM

Subject: Re: Hi

I don't know precisely how he died but it was not unexpected.  I don't judge whether anyone goes to Heaven or Hell.  For one, I believe in what they call soul-sleep.  But ignoring that,  I would not presume to judge a man's soul.  I do know one thing, all those wonderful works (his teachings) he thought he would be taking with him into the kingdom are going to be nothing more than ashes on the Altar.  His works are going to burn.  I'm totally comfortable saying that.   For his sake, I hope he gave some of those riches his ministry amassed to the poor.

Emailer's First Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Emailer #279 

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 1:11 AM

Subject: Re: Hi

Hi Paul, Thanks for emailing me back. I believe as the Bible states absent from the body present with the Lord when a believer dies. I don't want to argue with you on soul sleep but the bible states very clear when a believer dies is Present with the Lord. Pastor Murray I think is probably in Heaven because he believed in Jesus Christ but he will have to answer to Jesus on all the false teachings he did.   Caleb

----- Original Message -----

From: Emailer #279 

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 1:13 AM

Subject: Re: Hi

Paul, Pastor Murray died of a heart attack and his oldest son died in July of 2013 of a heart attack...just letting you know

My Second Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Emailer #279 

Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 10:53 AM

Subject: Re: Hi

I understand you don't want to argue, but I don't allow drive-by arguments :)  You are free to ignore this, as I said in my first message.

 

You misread your bible, Paul was talking about the resurrection, not making an axiomatic statement about death.  The subject in that passage is not death.  So to be absent from the body is not referring to death.  All one has to do is read carefully without forcing the scripture to say what we want it to say.

 

II Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The body is not "dissolved" in death.  Death is not the dissolution of the body, when you die, the body still exists.  What Paul is talking about is something hypothetical.  i.e.  If at this very minute your body was dissolved, we would still have another body from God, The only time that would be any sort of a reality would be when the last trump sounds and those who are alive are changed (without dying)

 

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

we would not be naked spirits if our bodies were dissolved.

 

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

 

The subject of this passage is clearly the resurrection.  Not death.

 

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

 

So what it actually says here is that to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord.

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

Paul does not say "to be absent is to be present"  What Paul is saying is that WE would be willing to give up the body, to that we might be present with the Lord, but since the subject is the resurrection and not death, it is unacceptable to use this  talk about our desire for the resurrection to change what the bible says about death.

 

I don't want to argue either, that is why I wrote a paper entitled "I believe in death and in the resurrection of the dead"

http://oraclesofgod.org/doctrine/03_the_resurrection_of_the_dead.htm

 

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini

Emailer's Second Reply:

My Third Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Emailer #279 

Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 11:20 AM

Subject: Re: Hi

As you please, may the Lord guide us all to a more perfect understanding of the truth. But I would caution you against putting so much faith in "great" men. 

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