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Can you please tell me where Jesus said that the Jews in John 8 were of the seed of Abraham?


----- Original Message -----
From: Emailer #258
To: Paul Stringini
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 12:17 PM
Subject: Kenite Question
Hi Paul, in one of your 'Kenite' dialogue articles you make the following statement:
"Also, Christ himself acknowledged that those whom he called the offspring of the devil were the seed of Abraham, making it very likely that he had been calling them sons of the Devil in a spiritual sense."

I'm only familiar with Yahushua stating that they were the sons of their father who was the first murderer.

Can you please tell me where you read that he said that they were of the seed of Abraham as well?
Thank You.

Incidentally, I have been watching SC off/on since the late 80's. Admittedly I do agree with most of their teachings and initially I did watch quite 'religiously'. Until Dr. Murray's hardcore right-wing USA patriotism comments finally got to me. (Like Murray my father was a Marine in WWII and Korea both and incredibly patriotic but even he had the sense to know this country has major hardcore right-wing fascist like issues!)

It would bother me when Murray would spout off about America and how you should defend it no matter what (right or wrong!?!?) but then someone would send a letter criticizing President Obama (usually with the all to common lie that Obama was coming for their guns... which in truth Obama has never said even once) but instead of defending his President against untrue/factless comments would very subtly side with the letter writer's comments! (ala Faux News)
And his adamant stance that all communists and socialists are anti-Christian was way over the top and a flat out lie.

I regard myself as having very strong Socialist political values (didn't Yahushua himself teach, 'love thy neighbor as thyself' as being the 2nd most important commandment?... while capitalism promotes 'self gain and self happiness' above everything else!) yet I can easily state that I believe in the One True Living GOD thru his son Yahushua ha Maschiach!

Anyway, sorry for the digression and I look forward to your reply.
Thank you and Regards, David

Sent from DW's iPhone


My First Response:

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Stringini"
To: Emailer #258
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kenite Question


Here is a cut-and paste from a recent conversation which I believe contains the information you are looking for.

In a passage widely used to support the Kenite argument, Jesus Christ himself affirms that those whom he said were "of their father the devil" were indeed the seed of Abraham.

John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

They were the carnal offspring of Abraham, but spiritually the children of Satan. Just as Cain was carnally the offspring of Adam (as the bible specifically describes) but was "of that wicked one," due to the nature of his deeds and the evil in his heart.  Later, when Jesus tells them they are "of the Devil," it is in direct response to the fact that they claimed that GOD was their father.  That means that the conversation has gone from a carnal application to a spiritual application.  I will demonstrate this now.

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because
there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I know that Ye are Abraham's seed in verse 37, affirms their carnal descent. When they then claim to be the children of God, this can safely be presumed
to be meant "spiritually," and is in response to Christ's suggestion that they do the deeds of "their father" Jesus then tells them they are the children of the devil and it is reasonable to say that he meant that spiritually as well.

By the way, when people introduce the red herring, "who was the first murderer?" here, they are ignoring the fact that Jesus here is claiming that SATAN was a murderer.  To insert Cain into this passage is begging the question and ignoring Jesus Christ's intended meaning, a very bad practice.

I have many free bible studies which you may find edifying.

If you have any other questions, I am at your service.

Paul Stringini

Editorial Comment:  I removed from this conversation my irrelevant political commentary.

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