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"You My Friend Have Some Nerve to Insult the Dead"

Question/Comment: 

----- Original Message -----

From: Emailer #238

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:14 PM

Subject: What I think of your site

My opinion doesn't matter for much. I'm not an acclaimed scholar of religion neither do I pastor a church, but I do want to say to you one thing: You've devoted a whole page of your website to basically tearing down another teacher's product. Now I've read all of your postings calling Pastor Murray Anti-Semitic and more or less painting out the things he has said as mislead foolishness. The conversation you drew from was from the 80's about 30 years ago. So I want to ask you, what were you saying 30 years ago? If someone dedicated a website with a page that covered a conversation you had 30 years ago is it possible one could read it and draw a negative opinion of you?

I also want to address you've accused this man of misleading by the denial of scripture when you yourself have omitted a portion of a verse to satisfy one of your accusations against Murray:

"Where were you, when I laid the foundations of the Earth...when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Now you say it doesn't say a thing about the time before in the bible, but you being such a self proclaimed "graduate" scholar of the Shepherd's Chapel should remember Jeremiah 4:22-26 especially when verse 26 says "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities therof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger." So when is that talking about? Just some other time when was beholding an Earth void and without form as he bares out in verse 23?

Lastly I want to turn back to my personal statements and away from scripture to say sir that you my friend have some nerve to insult the dead and even to allude on your page that false teachers are responsible for what they say in reference to Pastor Murray. Clearly he helped make a lasting impact on your life and while you pay homage to him and his organization the over bearing tone of your report is nothing more than slanderous. 

I by no means believe that he was a man above any other. I do not believe any church member walking and breathing is above any other in their potential to serve God. However, I know that my disgust grows a little more every time I find another website dedicated, at least in part, to tearing down Shepherd's Chapel  and more specifically a man like Arnold Murray who, regardless of any other, and I may add normally baseless up on investigation, insult or slander was undeniably ardent in his commitment to God and whether you agree with what he said or not can you at least not summon the common decency to refrain from dragging his life's work through the mud? Is it too much to ask that you follow at least one philosophy that he instilled in you and refrain from calling out other pastors publically and specifically? Frankly, to end my rant, I just want to say the only reason I stumbled upon your page was because I was looking for the Shepherd's Chapel's phone number and I hope you know that's more than likely the case with many people who see this witch hunt, are in pursuit of furthering their biblical and spiritual knowledge through the organization you hate.

My First Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To:  Emailer #238

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:35 PM

Subject: Re: What I think of your site

Hi Emailer #238, Thanks for writing and making your opinion known.  I certainly believe that every man is entitled to his opinion.  I also believe that the best respect I can pay you is to personally answer your message.

 

My opinion doesn't matter for much. I'm not an acclaimed scholar of religion neither do I pastor a church,

 

Neither am I, I guess that means that neither of our opinions matter much, but then again, I never read anywhere in the bible that either scholarship or religious authority impressed Christ much.  He seemed to value the opinions of fishermen as much as anyone else. "But who do you say that I am?"

 

but I do want to say to you one thing: You've devoted a whole page of your website to basically tearing down another teacher's product.

 

I've devoted more than a whole page.  I'd call it a whole section involving over a hundred pages.  The fact that you call it "product"  is an interesting choice.  Because usually they say I'm tearing down Murray personally.  And I really try to avoid non-professional issues.  Thanks for taking that route.

But isn't what's good for the goose also good for the gander? If it is ok for Murray to rip into people who wear "backward collars"  (Catholics)  or have the title "Reverend," or teach the rapture... Isn't he tearing down their "product?"  He dedicates a lot of time tearing down the rapture, and therefore anyone who teaches the rapture.  (I don't believe in the rapture).  I'd never fault Murray for saying that the rapture doctrine is incorrect.  But I don't care for his version of things either. 

 

If you look in the new testament, you see the Apostles defend the faith from those who would corrupt it.  You may disagree with my opinion about Murray's teachings,  but there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing (in and of itself) in speaking against him.  That happens to be one of Murray's hypocritical self-serving doctrines that you won't find in the bible.  When he suggests that it is virtuous not to be critical of other teachers, he is not only teaching unbiblical garbage, he is also playing a major hypocrite.  Beware of false prophets, and do this:

 

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

I'm obeying the scriptures.

 

Now I've read all of your postings calling Pastor Murray Anti-Semitic and more or less painting out the things he has said as mislead foolishness. 

 

I don't use the word "anti-Semitic" In fact, it does not occur on my website (Editorial Comment: Except for here now, of course).  I just checked.  Murray has always taught that the ethnic people whom most people call Jews are actually the carnal children of the Devil, the Kenites.  Period.  If you want to call that "anti-Semitic" or whatever, that is up to you. I don't accuse him of anti-Semitism, whatever you construe that to be,  what I accuse him of is teaching false doctrine.

 

The conversation you drew from was from the 80's about 30 years ago. So I want to ask you, what were you saying 30 years ago?

 

You are drawing a false comparison.  30 years ago I was 10 years old.  30 years ago Murray was 50, a fully mature man who claimed to have visions telling him that we were moving from this seal to that seal, and that Satan would soon appear. That is a big difference.  But 20 years ago I was teaching Arnold Murray's doctrine.  And I feel that I need to repent of that and make restitution to the Lord.  So now I fight against the teachings I once supported.  That seems fair to me.

 

Murray NEVER  retracted anything he said in the past. He never acknowledged his false predictions. (Editorial Comment: to my knowledge) In fact, the predictions he made back in the 80's forever after governed his prophetic teaching,  that was why in 1995 he was saying we were in the fifth trumpet.  He was making up for the fact that in 1980 the seals were all supposedly opened.  He never went back and said, "wait a minute, I made a mistake."  he kept to the same framework for 30 years.  That is called an unrepentant false prophet.

 

 If someone dedicated a website with a page that covered a conversation you had 30 years ago is it possible one could read it and draw a negative opinion of you?

 

Of course, but that is why I have a website now, where I clarify my past mistakes and make things right.  Murray never clarifies his past mistakes, because he never viewed them as mistakes.  The only mistake he would acknowledge was that he let those remarks be recorded. (Editorial Comment: And that he occasionally misspoke)

 

I also want to address you've accused this man of misleading by the denial of scripture when you yourself have omitted a portion of a verse to satisfy one of your accusations against Murray:

"Where were you, when I laid the foundations of the Earth...when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

 

I wish you had been a little more clear about what you are saying I omitted, and where.  I am always glad to answer any point.  If I left something out I probably felt it was not significant.  But I can correct that, if you feel there is a point that needs answering.

 

Now you say it doesn't say a thing about the time before in the bible, but you being such a self proclaimed "graduate" scholar of the Shepherd's Chapel should remember Jeremiah 4:22-26 especially when verse 26 says "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities therof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger." So when is that talking about? Just some other time when was beholding an Earth void and without form as he bares out in verse 23?

 

Jeremiah 4?  You are ripping those verses out of context.  It is very simple.  Read the whole chapter.  It is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem.   It has to be interpreted in the context in which it was written.  You can't just drop into the middle of a prophecy concerning Jerusalem and create a whole "world that was" legend about it.

 

The fact that "tuhu" and "buhu" are used, does not give anyone a license to make up new history.  The prophet is using that language to emphasize the fact that the destruction would be complete.  Like the world was before man walked on it.    Read the whole chapter, the verses you take out of context are an integral part of what Jeremiah was saying about Jerusalem.  This is not some "proof" of the existence of Murray's imaginary fantasy world. 

 

You accused me of leaving things out, but it is Murray who is wrenching verses from their context in order to establish novel and fantastic ideas for which he is the source, not the bible.

 

Lastly I want to turn back to my personal statements and away from scripture to say sir that you my friend have some nerve to insult the dead and even to allude on your page that false teachers are responsible for what they say in reference to Pastor Murray.

 

Well, I said that while he was alive.  But as far as insulting the dead goes...  Murray never shied away from insulting Margaret Macdonald and others.  Besides, Murray will live again in the resurrection, and God will judge him.

 

I generally do not think that I insult Murray, and by that I mean that I do not make up stuff to say about him or pick on him for reasons having nothing to do with the faith.  If he does things in the faith that I find repulsive, and I call him on it, then that may be insulting, but I make no apologies for it.

 

Also, the guy still appears on TV, so the fact that he is actually dead, does not mean much because his spirit lives on.

 

Clearly he helped make a lasting impact on your life and while you pay homage to him and his organization the over bearing tone of your report is nothing more than slanderous. 

 

There is no such thing as a slanderous tone.  This is nonsense.  Look up the word slander and then tell me one thing I ever said that was slanderous.  I say he is a false teacher.  But that is my opinion and I am entitled to it.  It is not slander.  Slander would be to suggest he was personally immoral or something, and I don't do that, because I don't judge the man, I judge the words.

 

I by no means believe that he was a man above any other. I do not believe any church member walking and breathing is above any other in their potential to serve God. However, I know that my disgust grows a little more every time I find another website dedicated, at least in part, to tearing down Shepherd's Chapel  and more specifically a man like Arnold Murray who, regardless of any other, and I may add normally baseless up on investigation, insult or slander was undeniably ardent in his commitment to God and whether you agree with what he said or not can you at least not summon the common decency to refrain from dragging his life's work through the mud?

 

I just don't get what you mean by "dragging his life's work through the mud."  I don't do any dragging through the mud.  I accurately represent what he taught and then I demonstrate how what he taught was false.  That is not dragging through the mud.  I'm putting him on the stage and giving him a proper cross-examination.  If he suffers from scrutiny, then maybe he was not such a great guy like you claim.

 

It seems to me at times that you people actually fear men more than you fear God.  As if I could do anything against the work of God.  All I would be doing is hurting myself. 

 

Is it too much to ask that you follow at least one philosophy that he instilled in you and refrain from calling out other pastors publically and specifically?

 

No way.  That is one of his false teachings.  That is contrary to what the Apostles taught.  That is a teaching straight from Satan himself. 

 

2Tim 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Where does Murray get that teaching from?  Do you know that not one Shepherd's Chapel defender has ever given me one scripture to back up that garbage?  At least for his other fantasies Murray gives scriptures.  Did you check him out on this one?  Did you ?!?  No, you didn't...  you just took his word for it because it sounded good to your itching ears.  Don't believe any man without checking him out in God's word?  Give me a verse, or confess that you follow a man and not scripture.

 

He basically used that false teaching to turn your ears off.  Basically, since you find fault with me even talking about his teachings,  we can't even have a conversation about it.  How very convenient for him.

 

 Frankly, to end my rant, I just want to say the only reason I stumbled upon your page was because I was looking for the Shepherd's Chapel's phone number and I hope you know that's more than likely the case with many people who see this witch hunt, are in pursuit of furthering their biblical and spiritual knowledge through the organization you hate.

 

I think their number used to be given out at the end of every broadcast.  But maybe that is not the case any longer.

 

Thanks for writing, remember, it is right to mark the wolves, it helps the sheep keep from getting eaten.

 

If you have any other questions or would like me to clarify something I said, I am at your service.

 

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini

Emailer's First Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Emailer #238

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:54 PM

Subject: Re: What I think of your site

Well sir Ive no desire for clarification, as my father always told me a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still and I believe thats where this conversation is, at an inpass and to continue it in the form of debate is only surely to end with me throwing out my ideas and you throwing your rebuttal never gaining ground only making know whats already known and that's our own opinion. I will only say im not a man who fears people as youve said, only a man who appreciates one who's works I find to be exceptional. I still dont believe this man to be misguided or a false prophet, and I dont believe you to be one either, I just believe you to be on the attack and therefore wasting your energy that could be directed to something else more productive. People that change their mind from reading these posts have no more foundation in whatever they believe than a flower in the sand. Remember if they change their mind that easy they'll change it again.

My Second Response:

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Stringini
To: Emailer #238
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: What I think of your site


Hi Emailer #238,
Well, That is a cynical way to view people (if they change their mind that easy they'll change it again) It may be true of some people, but it goes deeper than that. I would not rate my work as something that is intended to change minds with ease. You seem to rate me pretty high. You granted me the power to drag Murray through the mud. If my work shows him to be covered in filth, then it must be something.

I do provide documentation and proof for the things I say. There are young people to consider. And people who have not made up their minds. I do not covet the people that follow Murray without seriously questioning him. People who do not question Murray will not hear me.

There is such a thing as "learning your lesson" I was convinced based on the information that was given me, but then I learned more about Greek and Hebrew and I started to question his methods. So it is not like I was just convinced by the same trick in the other direction. It is not like that at all. I fell prey to Murray's flattery and bluster when I was young, I learned my lesson, and now I pass that lesson along. When I changed my mind, that was it, there is ZERO chance I will change my mind again.

 Most of the people who like my work already dislike Murray. But I do it for the people who were young like me and didn't know any better.

Thanks for the response, I understand how you feel, but I disagree.

Sincerely,
Paul Stringini

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