Return to "The Shepherd's Chapel and Dr. Arnold Murray" Main Page
Another Polite Exchange With Emailer #216
----- Original Message -----From: Name WithheldTo: Paul StringiniSent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 3:05 AMSubject: Paul SPaul,I wrote to you over three months ago about being a Chapel Student. I told you back then why all the hubris you were spearheading against this man and that I haven't found a "perfect teacher" yet that I can agree with on all the doctrines and prophesies. In our quest and yearning to find truth I wonder if it's even possible to understand the full meaning of the Word Of God? Maybe there is a time and season for everything and more will open up according to His will. Yes, the milk is easy to understand for our salvation, but the meat is sometimes hard to chew and understand.My take on Murray was/is a little different than yours. I don't hold it against him for some of his teachings that he didn't prove. God gave me a mind to discern and I normally will chuck or not teach that which is not proven by the Word Of God. I believe some his students are very knowledgeable, however one of their yoke's is believing what he "says" and not what the scripture states. However, not all students are like that. I find quite a few that are not in lock-step on everything he taught. Again, I think your criticism is a little overboard because what he did teach made you study and look it up. In your journey to enlightenment what if you had not run across Murray? What if some Mormon or Charismatic had nabbed you..think about that for a second. Where you be? There is a reason for everything. I can tell you some stories about my past and where I am today, but due to space and attention span I don't want to bore you. I believe because of our journeys there are gifts that God has given me and you.I don't know why I am writing you again. For some reason I had your web-site listed and decided to read some of your questions. The one on the rapture and the resurrection were quite good and in my studies you were on the spot. I read a response on "Jews going to heaven" and you were correct in your answer "that ALL will rise" at the return of Jesus and will enter the Kingdom if they believe in Him. However, you are a little mixed up on what the term "Jew" means in the text and what the traditions of men that are taught by today's Church's. I will not go any further on this issue unless you have time in the future for a little biblical and historical discourse on this subject.Like you I do not attend any organized Church. The main reason is that they would probably boot me out after I started to question doctrine.I like your passion for learning and zeal for the Word of God. We need to stand together because the darkness is encircling and the forces of evil are getting more bolder. I will listen to some of your web studies, but don't expect me to agree with everything. Does this make me a heretic?
----- Original Message -----From: Paul StringiniTo: Name WithheldSent: Friday, May 16, 2014 4:45 PMSubject: Re: Paul S
Hi again Emailer #216,I reread our correspondence from back in February. Thanks for taking the time to write again. It is my practice to believe that every person who writes me was directed to do so by God, for whatever reason. It is always more enjoyable to have follow up when it is not a case of pure argumentation. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in writing.I wrote to you over three months ago about being a Chapel Student. I told you back then why all the hubris you were spearheading against this man and that I haven't found a "perfect teacher" yet that I can agree with on all the doctrines and prophesies. In our quest and yearning to find truth I wonder if it's even possible to understand the full meaning of the Word Of God?I was writing to another individual a few minutes ago and said this: " I think sometimes people are so anxious to get their religion settled that they close themselves off from God's leading and instruction."To the degree that it is necessary for us to understand, we may trust that God will guide us into full understanding, in that context. But we can certainly begin to intrude into things which we have not received from God. We do this because we have a craving for knowledge which is not always godly. We want to find out secrets. It is part of our nature. I believe God wants to give us the answers to many questions. And I believe that as we continue to study, God will reveal more to us. But I am very skeptical of many of the things people think they know, as I am skeptical of what I think I know.Everything I do on my website is sort of frozen in time. I would not necessarily answer every question the same today as I did when they were asked. But I leave it there so people can see me change. Hopefully for the better. I want to teach people how to pursue perfection, that is what I am doing. I could not teach people how to be perfect, because I am not.Maybe there is a time and season for everything and more will open up according to His will.I agree with that sentiment. We place our trust in him to reveal, in his time, all that we need to know.Yes, the milk is easy to understand for our salvation, but the meat is sometimes hard to chew and understand.Milk and meat are interesting analogies. What exactly is milk? What exactly is meat? How do we know that our assumptions about meat and milk are correct? For my money, meat is essential to my salvation, if I were to die as a child in Christ, then milk would be enough, because God is gracious. But when God gives me so much time in life to grow, it is manifest, at least to me, that meat is essential to one that is full age.Arnold Murray had an interesting idea of what meat was. I completely disagree with his interpretation. What he called meat I would call candy, soda pop, and pastries. I envision him as an old pervert on the street corner offering candy to kids, telling them it will make them strong. But there is no nutritional value in the "meat" he offered.The true meat, the true knowledge is that which makes you like Christ. How does a man overcome lust? That is the sort of meat that makes you a man of God. Arnold Murray did not offer that kind of meat. He used a lot of talk to dress up his teachings as "mature" and make us think that what he was peddling was nutritious for our souls, but it was just a sugar rush.Here is a meaty passage2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
That is what I'm talking about. Partaking of the divine nature. That's for me. I want to know about that. That is what they who are of full age are obtaining, or should be obtaining. I seek glory and virtue, not fairy tales and fantasies, I want to obtain the practical knowledge that enables a believer to possess his vessel in sanctification.1Thessalonians 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;That is the true meat that makes a babe in Christ into a man of God. Arnold Murray did not teach any such doctrine. His idea of maturity was basically for us to learn to read into the text the way he would read into the text and that we should learn to follow the trail of breadcrumbs he would instruct us to follow in order to reach the conclusions he had about some fanciful idea of his or the other.More meat from Peter:2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2 Peter 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.Knowledge is a tricky thing, there are all kinds of knowledge masquerading as the knowledge of God. The purpose of our existence in this world is for us to become the sons of God. The knowledge which brings us closer to that objective is the most useful kind of knowledge. The kind of knowledge which puffs us up (like candy and sweets can) is not the sort of knowledge I am interested in. That is essentially the way I see the knowledge that Murray peddles.2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Meat is very important to me, because when I see the fruit of it in my life I grow in confidence of my election.My take on Murray was/is a little different than yours. I don't hold it against him for some of his teachings that he didn't prove. God gave me a mind to discern and I normally will chuck or not teach that which is not proven by the Word Of God. I believe some his students are very knowledgeable, however one of their yoke's is believing what he "says" and not what the scripture states.However, not all students are like that. I find quite a few that are not in lock-step on everything he taught.Not all are in lock-step, I have definitely encountered that. I would venture to say that the majority are not in lock-step.Again, I think your criticism is a little overboard because what he did teach made you study and look it up. In your journey to enlightenment what if you had not run across Murray? What if some Mormon or Charismatic had nabbed you..think about that for a second. Where you be?Since God is guiding me, I would be exactly where God wanted me to be. Peter was a fisherman, Paul was a Pharisee. And I was a student of Arnold Murray. I do not owe any special gratitude or honor to a false teacher who instructed me in many false things. I do not see Arnold as being as harmless as many do. I think he was manipulative and condescending. He used flattery etc. etc. I think I fell into about as awful hands as I could have fallen. Yet God delivered me from Murray's way of thinking. What I obtained from Murray I could have obtained in some other form, but this was the way in which God brought me, so I not resent having been taught by Murray.There is a reason for everything. I can tell you some stories about my past and where I am today, but due to space and attention span I don't want to bore you. I believe because of our journeys there are gifts that God has given me and you.As you please.I don't know why I am writing you again. For some reason I had your web-site listed and decided to read some of your questions. The one on the rapture and the resurrection were quite good and in my studies you were on the spot. I read a response on "Jews going to heaven" and you were correct in your answer "that ALL will rise" at the return of Jesus and will enter the Kingdom if they believe in Him.I am glad we concur.However, you are a little mixed up on what the term "Jew" means in the text and what the traditions of men that are taught by today's Church's. I will not go any further on this issue unless you have time in the future for a little biblical and historical discourse on this subject.Murray's fixation on the term Jew is error, it is the way he avoids talking about how he taught that the Jews were Satan's biological children. I define the term Jew by the way it was used in the New Testament by Christ and His Apostles. In the New Testament, a Jew is another term for an Israelite the terms may be considered interchangeable. A person who was believed to be a descendant of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is called a Jew in the bible. I did not learn this from men. I learned it by reading the bible.Like you I do not attend any organized Church. The main reason is that they would probably boot me out after I started to question doctrine.I empathize.I like your passion for learning and zeal for the Word of God. We need to stand together because the darkness is encircling and the forces of evil are getting more bolder. I will listen to some of your web studies, but don't expect me to agree with everything. Does this make me a heretic?No, I don't think it makes you a heretic, (not automatically), because I have been known to be wrong. Heresy is another sin. Like all sinners, heretics will not inherit the kingdom of God, as Paul said (Galatians 5). But I trust that those who place their trust in Christ are being led from darkness into light and from sin to righteousness. So we will eventually agree, maybe I will change, maybe you will, I won't know till it happens, but I believe God will show us because he has called us and chosen us to be conformed to the image of his son, no other result is possible, unless we are reprobates. But there is no point in thinking that. Christ delights in our faith and trust in him.If you have any questions or further comments, I am at your service.Sincerely,Paul Stringini
Return to "The Shepherd's Chapel and Dr. Arnold Murray" Main Page