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"I Totally Disagree with You in Your Beliefs about Shepherd's Chapel!"
Question/Comment:
----- Original Message -----From: Name WithheldTo: Paul StringiniSent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 4:38 PMSubject: Shepherds chapel!I totally disagree with you in your beliefs about Shepherds chapel! I studied with him in my early 20's, moved, and I got busy in my life and could not view shepards chapel for a while, I am currently studying with him again, I'm am now 43! I went to many churches in my life and was told/taught things that just did not make since to me! When I was a little girl in Sunday school learning about the sin in the garden and the " apple", and also about what he'll would be like it didn't sink in, I could not get it! I thank God for not allowing me to be deceived by their false doctrine! I had a dream as a 6 yr old child, where Satan knocked on my door, and he looked like Jesus! When I finished talking with him, and was shutting the door, I realized it wasn't Jesus! I opened the door again and said, "your not Jesus you are the devil! He laughed at me and suddenly appeared ugly! I never forgot the dream, but I always remembered it and even asked if people knew what it meant! The very first day I watched shepherds chapel, I found the reason and the meaning of my dream! Everyone is human and we all make mistakes! If pastor Arnold Murry said something that you may believe he fabricated so be it! He teaches the closets thing to the truth than anything I'v ever been taught, going to Christian Churches as a child, and as an adult! I support shepherds chapel. One thing I can say that you must not of learned from the Chapel, it's said every day! And that is not to direct statements concerning a particular Religion, Church or Pastor, we will not judge!
Sent from my iPhone
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Stringini"
To: Name Withheld
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: Shepherds chapel!
Hello, Thank you for visiting oraclesofgod.org and taking the time to express your views.In passing I would like to point out my free bible songs:
http://oraclesofgod.org/songs/index.htmAnd free line-by-line bible studies:
http://oraclesofgod.org/studies/index.htmOn to your message...
---"I totally disagree with you in your beliefs about Shepherds chapel!"
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But we ought to examine our opinions and what we think we know. This is one valuable lesson I learned from Arnold Murray. We ought to check every teacher out, to see if what he was saying is true. I think that instead of seriously checking him out, many students use that statement as an excuse to place their trust in what Murray says, after all, he claims to be a scholar of the ancient languages. He tells people not to trust him, but they do it anyway. You may not be aware of this, but "don't trust me" is a classic confidence ploy meant to disarm us and cause us to trust someone.
----"I studied with him in my early 20's, moved, and I got busy in my lifeand could not view shepards chapel for a while, I am currently studying with him again, I'm am now 43!"
It sounds like we started studying with Murray at about the same time. For me it was the summer of 1993.
---" I went to many churches in my life and was told/taught things that just did not make since to me! When I was a little girl in Sunday school learning about the sin in the garden and the " apple", and also about what he'll would be like it didn't sink in, I could not get it!"
Did you actually go to a Sunday School where they actually told you that it was an "apple?" The bible says that the tree grew from the ground and that it bare fruit. The bible says that the fruit looked edible and does not report any other fact than that the fruit was consumed. By all accounts the tree in the midst of the garden was unique. Not an apple tree.
If eating from the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil really meant "having sex with Satan" Then what would it mean for them to have eaten from the tree of Life?
Genesis 3:22 ...and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Does this verse suggest that they might try to have sex with the tree of life also?
The fact that you did not "get it" Proves nothing. Our lack of understanding is not how we measure whether something is true or not. Just because one idea "makes more sense" to our minds does not mean that the idea comes from God. For me it is a simple matter of allowing the bible to teach me. Arnold Murray does not let the bible teach. Arnold Murray uses the bible to teach his own personal philosophy and beliefs which are actually corruptions and perversions of what the bible actually says.
Eve was not sexually seduced, she was beguiled. I did a thorough examination of the Greek word Exapatao (Expattio - as Murray says) Did you check him out? Did you do your homework? I did:"Does "Expattio!" Really Mean Sexually Seduced? Or Is Arnold Murray Deceiving Us?"
http://oraclesofgod.org/shepherds_chapel/exapatao.htm...Check me out.
----"I thank God for not allowing me to be deceived by their false doctrine!"
I agree there is a lot of false doctrine out there, but the most dangerous kind of false doctrine is the one that turns us into self righteous hypocrites who think nothing of committing many carnal sins but come down on people for misunderstanding the word. I'm not saying that is you. But what I am saying is that Christianity is not about what kind of secret doctrines you think you can pull out of the bible. Christianity is about how we live our lives according to the doctrine of Christ. How we treat our fellow men. Sin comes in many forms, false doctrine is but one of these. False doctrine is not the only sin that is unacceptable before God.
----- "I had a dream as a 6 yr old child, where Satan knocked on my door, and he looked like Jesus! When I finished talking with him, and was shutting the door, I realized it wasn't Jesus! I opened the door again and said, "your not Jesus you are the devil! He laughed at me and suddenly appeared ugly! I never forgot the dream, but I always remembered it and even asked if people knew what it meant! The very first day I watched shepherds chapel, I found the reason and the meaning of my dream!"
The Apostle Paul was a Pharisee, and I was once of the Shepherd's Chapel, so it would not surprise me at all if you also come out of the darkness of Arnold Murray's deception. I know there is a false Christ. This is not something only Arnold Murray knew. One truth in the midst of many lies does not make the whole good.
-----" Everyone is human and we all make mistakes! If pastor Arnold Murry said something that you may believe he fabricated so be it!"
It is not about making mistakes. I make mistakes too. But beyond a simple mistake, sometimes I'm just plain wrong, in error, or deceived, but thank God he reveals that to me by His grace and I am able to acknowledge my errors publicly. A true man of God needs to be able to humbly acknowledge his errors. Not just hide behind a generic "we all make mistakes." I'm not talking about "mistakes." I've heard what some chapel students think his mistakes are: misspeaking, mispronouncing, stumbling over his words. That is nothing. I'm talking about repeated fabrications and lies. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. You can't drink bitter and sweet water out of the same well, that is why we are taught to purge out the leaven and purify our doctrine according to the scriptures.
------He teaches the closets thing to the truth than anything I'v ever been taught, going to Christian Churches as a child, and as an adult!
I disagree. Arnold Murray teaches a poisonous cocktail of doctrine wrapped in flattery which appeals to some. It once appealed to me, but now I see him for what he truly is: a manipulative flatterer and corrupter of the scriptures. Yes, he teaches some truth, but so do those churches you went to.
The core of Murray's teaching: Serpent seed, Kenites, Murray's version of Election and Grace, Murray's Millennium, Murrays Resurrection, are all corruptions. These were the very things that drew me to his teachings, because he uses this to weave a version of Christian truth which is palatable to man and which pleases man, but is not true, is not biblical. Editorial Comment: Murray tempts us by presuming to fill in perceived gaps of the knowledge which the Lord has provided through the scriptures.
----- "I support shepherds chapel. One thing I can say that you must not of learned from the Chapel, it's said every day! And that is not to direct statements concerning a particular Religion, Church or Pastor, we will not judge!
I learned that, and I obviously disagree, that is another one of Arnold Murray's false doctrines. It seems right to man, but is not of God. The Apostle commanded us to MARK men such as Arnold Murray. It is no different than if a child molester moved in next door. Should you tell the families in the neighborhood that an unrepentant child molester lives in the neighborhood? Or should you protect the wolf? Should you let the wolf go about in sheep's clothing undetected?
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK THEM which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Arnold criticizes other denominations all the time. He just uses a broad brush. But he does not have to tell you their names since anyone who does not teach who the Kenites are is already marked by Murray's doctrine. Murray teaches against all denominations except his own, so it is very convenient for him to tell you that one should not single out individuals. It is just a self-serving lie, and a false doctrine straight from Satan himself.
Again, thank you for visiting my website and taking the time to express your views. If you would like to discuss this further I am at your service.
Sincerely,
Paul Stringini
----- Original Message -----From: Name WithheldTo: Paul StringiniSent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:01 PMSubject: Re: Shepherds chapel!Yes, I went to Sunday school at a church that taught children the the sin in the garden was that eve at an apple, and it was forbidden! No, I don't think partaking of the tree of life is to have sex with it! The tree of life is Jesus Christ which was not forbidden! God said they could partake or eat of every tree except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil! They ate of the one tree that was forbidden! The tree of life is truth in which we partake of in Gods word! Yes, I don't check out what is said, I have study material, I study on my own as well as with Shepherds chapel, and I know how to think for myself and I use discernment of what I want to listen to! I believe that there are false teachers n preachers out there, and although no one is perfect or right about everything, I believe that Shepard chapel teaches truth! Arnold Murray has spoke against certain teachings, but I have never heard him name one specifically! I choose to believe exactly what I believe to be truth as does most people believes what the feel is truth! If I'm am wrong, I guess one day I will find out!
----- Original Message -----From: Paul StringiniTo: Name WithheldSent: Friday, May 23, 2014 4:01 PMSubject: Re: Shepherds chapel!
Well, the bible says that the tree was "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil" I do not know where people get the apple idea. But really the kind of fruit is immaterial. Ultimately, it is as you said, God forbade it. That is all that really matters. The sin in the garden was disobedience. To say that it was some other sin is incorrect. Arnold Murray suggests that we should believe that eating fruit = sex, that is why I asked about the tree of life, if this is all an analogy or something, the symbols have to be consistent, you can't say "eating from the tree of knowledge means having sex with the devil" and then turn around and say eating from the tree of life means something different in the same context. God did not forbid sex with the devil, if they had had sex with the devil, it would not have been a sin, because they didn't know any better. How would Adam and Eve know that when God said "don't eat that fruit" he meant "don't have sex with that angel?" It would be unreasonable to expect them know that.God said they could partake or eat of every tree except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil!Yes, but you do understand that the Shepherd's Chapel teaches that what that really means is that they were not to have sex with the devil? Or have you not got that far with them yet?Arnold Murray has spoke against certain teachings, but I have never heard him name one specifically!That is a contradiction. You wrote me about the garden. There is one teaching specifically already. I could think of dozens of specific teachings Arnold Murray speaks against. Some true some false, but the main point is that he does speak against many specific things and anyone with a little knowledge of churches can quickly figure out if Arnold Murray would approve of a particular church or not.Anyway, Thanks for writing back, If I may be of service to you do not hesitate to write. The shepherd's Chapel is the personality cult of Arnold Murray. Avoid it. His doctrine is puffed up with vain imaginations and false doctrine.Sincerely,Paul Stringini
----- Original Message -----From: Name WithheldTo: Paul StringiniSent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 9:15 AMSubject: Re: Shepherds chapel!It just sounds like you got a bitter taste in your mouth! You say you studied with shepherds chaple but it seems like your against all of his teachings! I believe the sin in the garden was intercourse that produced Cain. Jesus himself spoke of the seed of satan! I believe that there was two influx's of giants, produced sexually by the fallen angels having sex with the sons of Adam and that there will be another influx! I believe that from the beginning Satan wanted to destroy the seed that Christ would come thru by sex! Christ was to be without spot, from a perfect seed line! Satan wanted to destroy that! What else do you think it could of been if it was not sex? Yes I agree that Adam n Eve did not know what sex was and though God may not have said, "don't have sex with Satan, God told them to leave that tree alone , not to touch it! They did then there was then the knowledge of sex, because the Eve gave birth! How else would you explain it?I understand that people don't believe everything the same way, and that is fine, it wasn't meant to be that way! We don't have to believe the same way! Whatever you think about Shepherd's Chapel is your choice! I feel like Shepard's Chapel has and does their best at teaching bible! I believe they are sent from God to teach! No matter, we will all know the truth in the millennium! I also believe satan uses people to try to stop others from hearing truth! So be careful, I would hate that something said would hinder a believer by trying to take away their truth!
----- Original Message -----From: Paul StringiniTo: Name WithheldSent: Monday, June 02, 2014 1:31 PMSubject: Re: Shepherds chapel!Hi again, I've been busy but I wanted to address your message, sorry it has been over a week.It just sounds like you got a bitter taste in your mouth!I don't know exactly what you mean by that. I have no bitter feelings towards the Shepherd's Chapel. I oppose Arnold Murray's teachings because they are contrary to the scriptures. When I was a student of the Chapel I was enthusiastic for the teachings, now I oppose them and I also see through Arnold Murray's exterior image he creates.You say you studied with shepherds chaple but it seems like your against all of his teachings!That is right. I am a former student of the Shepherd's Chapel (I started studying with the Chapel in 1993. Stopped after about 4 years and then I created my anti-Chapel webpage in 2007). So I am familiar with the teachings of Arnold Murray and as a former supporter of Shepherd's Chapel I bear some responsibility for that ministry and its works. That is why I fight against it.I believe the sin in the garden was intercourse that produced Cain.Then you do not believe in the bible, but in the traditions of men. The bible says that the sin in the garden was disobedience.Jesus himself spoke of the seed of satan!That is "non sequitur." It does not follow. Jesus spoke of a seed of Satan, therefore the sin in the garden was intercourse? It does not follow. The seed of the serpent is spiritual. That is what Christ and his apostles taught. Arnold Murray's interpretation of the serpent seed doctrine is incorrect. It runs contrary to everything he should have learned in the new testament. It is the product of the imaginations of corrupt men.I believe that there was two influx's of giants, produced sexually by the fallen angels having sex with the sons of Adam and that there will be another influx!I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. That is how I talk. What does your faith in influxes of Giants and sex with angels get you? My faith has benefits. What you are talking about is not really about "belief" it is about knowledge. It is the sort of knowledge that puffs up without giving you any benefit in Christ.I do not object to the idea of Giants and fallen angels. But I do not tell people "I believe" in that stuff. I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe in the resurrection of the dead, that is the content of my faith. Do not allow these non issues rob you of your true inheritance.I believe that from the beginning Satan wanted to destroy the seed that Christ would come thru by sex!That is not in the bible. That is a tradition of men. It is a ridiculous proposition as well, because God would never let that happen, Satan would know that God would never let that happen, and so Satan would not honestly try to do that. Satan does exactly what God allows him to do. God allowed the serpent to be in the garden did he not? In fact, God PLACED the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil in the garden and made it appealing. Did he not?Arnold Murray's sex obsession is not a valid interpretation of the bible. The bible explains itself and is very easy to understand. No child would ever come up with Arnold Murray's interpretation, despite Murray's false claims of simplicity.Christ was to be without spot, from a perfect seed line! Satan wanted to destroy that!This is actually nonsense. I know it is not your idea and I don't blame you, I once bought into it too. There is only one carnal seed line of men. All men are descended from Eve and from Adam, that is what the bible teaches. The genealogical obsession of Arnold Murray goes beyond what is written into the realm of imaginations.What else do you think it could of been if it was not sex?As it is written. Eating a forbidden fruit. That is what the bible says. It made them wise and it made them die. I do not claim to understand exactly how that would work but the fruit of that tree might have had some sort of effect on their DNA. We are only beginning to understand human DNA and mortality. But we have come up with all kinds of compounds which may be ingested and which impact the body and mind. So that is not exactly a far-out idea.Sex on the other hand, we understand full well. It does not make you wiser and it does not make you die. Simple.Yes I agree that Adam n Eve did not know what sex was and though God may not have said, "don't have sex with Satan, God told them to leave that tree alone , not to touch it!Exactly. "You didn't touch your dinner!" Touch can mean many things, and it can mean EAT as well !That word "touch" can indeed indicate sex, (as it can today) but that is only in context. (also that is what Eve said, we do not know for sure if God actually said that) There are many times when "naga" (touch) is used in which it would be totally inappropriate to interpret it as meaning "have intercourse" this is one of those places. Touch does not mean "have intercourse" in Genesis 3. We use the same euphemism today. If I tell a young man "you better not touch my daughter!" he will know what I mean without a Hebrew dictionary.They did then there was then the knowledge of sex, because the Eve gave birth! How else would you explain it?According to the bible Eve Got pregnant because Adam "knew her" and the direct result was Cain. Also, the knowledge of sex isn't evil. We don't even know if they didn't know about sex. God gave Adam and Eve sex organs because he intended them to use them. There is no reason to suppose that the knowledge of Good and evil is specifically sexual knowledge.I understand that people don't believe everything the same way, and that is fine, it wasn't meant to be that way!I agree with that.We don't have to believe the same way!Well, we need to believe a certain way if we want to inherit eternal life.Whatever you think about Shepherd's Chapel is your choice!I am thankful for your positive attitude.I feel like Shepard's Chapel has and does their best at teaching bible! I believe they are sent from God to teach!Well, we all have our opinions. I think Arnold Murray is a fake scholar who does a lot of damage by causing people to trust his authority.No matter, we will all know the truth in the millennium!I disagree. The millennium will not be the way Arnold Murray teaches5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.The rest of the dead will not live again in the millennium to be taught. I understand how he interprets that verse. it is a false interpretation.I also believe satan uses people to try to stop others from hearing truth! So be careful, I would hate that something said would hinder a believer by trying to take away their truth!
You have basically summarized Arnold Murray's ministry in a nutshell. His false traditions interfere with people's ability to hear the truth. Their minds become filled with unprofitable doctrine which does not assist them in obtaining the divine nature.I suggest you check out my line by line bible studies. They are very profitable, spiritually, and free . http://oraclesofgod.org/studies/index.htmSincerely,Paul Stringini
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