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I Am a Student of Shepherd's Chapel, However That Does Not Mean I Walk Lock-Step with All the Pastor's Teachings.

Question/Comment: 

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 3:43 AM

Subject: Thoughts on Murray

I came across your web site and was browsing through some of your articles and e-mails on Pastor Murray. I am a student of Shepherd's Chapel, however that does not mean I walk lock-step with all the Pastor's teachings. I will say that he was (he died Wednesday) a good, honest man that believes in what he is saying which is very rare today from what I have seen over the past 50 years. "Prove all things" I hold dearly. There are some doctrines like death of the soul/body, the elect and the serpent seed that I do not entirely agree with, but there are other doctrines that I do concur with..3 world ages, lies of the rapture doctrine, and that the were getting late into the game in the Book of Revelation.

 

I know you believe you have it all down, and have all the answers, but I'm telling you that NOBODY does. If you find that "man"  that has all the answers then please let me know. We can only go by the Word and the Spirit of Truth that can open our eyes to certain doctrines and prophesies. We can only pray and ask for truth and seek as we are admonished to do. Don't know why some can see clearly, see differently or cannot see a thing. I have friends who believe in the Rapture doctrine and trying to prove by the scriptural Word they are incorrect is like " I'm from the Devil" out to pull them away from their faith. Catch my drift? There are Mormons, Catholics, J. Witnesses, Baptists. Evangelicals, etc, etc, with so many doctrines, so many prophecies that Christianity has become a tower of Babel.

 

I guess the point I am trying to make is that each of us have a responsibility to be a truth seeker in a world full of lies. Getting through the smoke from the pit to find the original truth. From my listening to a couple of chapters in your Revelation study I though you had a good grasp on the scriptures but have a couple of real problems with interpretations on several verses. Does that make you a heretic in my eyes? No. Nor did Pastor Murray when I didn't agree on some of his interpretations. Should I set up my own special web site to debunk some of your interpretations and doctrines?   No. I will not do that because we are all fighting darkness in this age, so why should we fight one another when the enemy is at our gate. What we should be teaching Christians is to put on our gospel armor and coming together to fight the propaganda and lies of Satan that are splitting us further apart. That I know we can agree on.

 

Your brother in Christ,

 

Name Withheld.

 

BTW..a couple of articles and e-mails on Pastor Murray that you published and criticized. This past week I heard his answer on drugs from a question, 2014 events forecast,  and knew his affliction had slowed him down, and his cognitive discourse was effecting his speech and mind. His answers and even some of his interpretations, 2014  were off the mark or discombobulated due to his illness. And yes he died this week.

My First Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 4:45 PM

Subject: Re: Thoughts on Murray

Hi Name Withheld,

Thanks for taking the time to write.

 

Well, I had not heard about it until about one minute before I looked at your email. I'm sorry to hear that the man died.   I remember looking at him start Revelation the other week and commenting to my wife that he would probably never finish it.  I'm curious to see how they handle his ministry now that he is dead.

 

Honestly it take a bit of the wind out of my sails.  I'm hoping his ministry dries up and I will be released from speaking of it anymore (or at least so that it becomes a rare occurrence).  If they have brains over at the Chapel they will keep offering Pastor Murray's teachings and not replace them with Dennis's.  Dennis is just not a talented broadcaster, and he seems to have a major sinus problem. (I'm about to get my sinus problem fixed myself)

 

I came across your web site and was browsing through some of your articles and e-mails on Pastor Murray. I am a student of Shepherd's Chapel, however that does not mean I walk lock-step with all the Pastor's teachings. I will say that he was (he died Wednesday) a good, honest man that believes in what he is saying which is very rare today from what I have seen over the past 50 years.

 

I don't know. I used to believe that he was good and honest.  But I cannot agree with that.  He was dishonest and encouraged dishonesty in his students in the form of subtlety.  I just got done recording his "Seed Planting Tape"  and I just don't see this guy as an open and honest preacher of God's word.   As far as him being good, (and I'm not going to pick on you by saying "God only is good"  I know what you mean)  I have learned too much about him to see him as good.  He was good to people who he liked, all of us are like that.

 

"Prove all things" I hold dearly. There are some doctrines like death of the soul/body, the elect and the serpent seed that I do not entirely agree with,

 

I am still a believer in the death of the soul. 

 

The elect, well Arnold believed that the elect elected God in the world that was.  I believe the elect were elected by God.

 

Serpent seed, I believe it is a spiritual seed. 1 john 3  I'm glad to hear you are not into this doctrine, I think it is a major distraction from the gospel.

 

but there are other doctrines that I do concur with..3 world ages, 

 

Well, that is a big one, for Murray there was a lot of overlap in the doctrine of the elect and that.   I believe in a millennium, but I do not believe it will be as Murray says, I believe that the world was before, but not as he says. Since you don't seem to want to argue about this, I'm just going to comment and let it be.

 

lies of the rapture doctrine,

 

Well, I believe the rapture doctrine is false.  But I also believe that Arnold was wrong about things like 1 Thess 4 "air" being the "breath of life body" I believe that the catching up into the clouds is part of the resurrection at the last trump.  I wrote a big article on death and resurrection, you might find it interesting http://oraclesofgod.org/doctrine/03_the_resurrection_of_the_dead.htm

 

and that the were getting late into the game in the Book of Revelation.

 

I would disagree with that most vehemently.  Not one sign has come to pass.   Not a single trumpet.  We are not in the end times.  Arnold predicted that Antichrist would appear in 1981 (or 80 I forget)  And he also reported having visions that we were moving from this seal to that and from this trumpet to that.  No wonder he believed we must be late in the game, Revelation says the end times take a maximum of 3.5 years.  Arnold has had us in the end times for over 30 years!

 

I know you believe you have it all down, and have all the answers,

 

No, no, no. No, I don't.  That is what you want to believe about me, but it is not true. You really don't know me.  This is my favorite verse in the bible.  1 Cor 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

 

If you listen to the very first study in my revelation study, you will hear me say that I cannot tell you everything you want to know, I think you must have skipped that one and listened to some of the "juicier chapters"  that is too bad if that is the case.

 

One of the things that annoys me about Arnold Murray is that he has built his entire ministry on making things up to answer questions he feels are important.  Many of his answers to "why"  questions are just him taking liberty and making things up.  He speaks authoritatively of things which he does not know. He intrudes into things he has not seen.  All his visions for his ministry died with him on Wednesday.  If you have listened to his older tapes, you know that his death is the ultimate rebuke of all his prophetic lies.

 

I try not to intrude into what has not been revealed.  I do not believe I know everything.  What I try to do is only hold to those things which I know are true.  I keep my doctrine uncorrupt.  The less doctrine you have, the easier that is to do.

 

Titus 2:7 In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine showing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

 

but I'm telling you that NOBODY does.

 

What man follows doctrines that he does not believe are true?  Can you honestly tell me that you believe things that you do not think are absolutely true?  Nobody has the truth but everyone thinks they do.  I know that I really don't know anything like I ought to know it.

 

If you find that "man"  that has all the answers then please let me know.

 

Again, it depends on the questions. 

 

2 Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

Arnold's ministry is built on answering unlearned questions, such as, the elect stood against Satan in the world that was and earned their election.  If you don't have eyes to see that is what they did, then you are not a student of Arnold Murray. 

 

 

We can only go by the Word and the Spirit of Truth that can open our eyes to certain doctrines and prophesies.

 

Do you expect to be continually frustrated, or do you expect God to reveal things?  How do you even know you have God's spirit?

 

We can only pray and ask for truth and seek as we are admonished to do.

 

Agreed.

 

Don't know why some can see clearly, see differently or cannot see a thing.

 

Well, it is written.  They cannot see because it is not GIVEN for them to see.  My second favorite verse:

 

1 Cor 3:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

 

I have friends who believe in the Rapture doctrine and trying to prove by the scriptural Word they are incorrect is like " I'm from the Devil" out to pull them away from their faith. Catch my drift?

Oh yes.  I do understand.  I have been called the devil by many people, and not just Chapel students, by any means. 

 

Everyone has a truth and everyone thinks God has revealed it to them.  God is going to have to judge between us all and remove a few candlestick out of their places.

 

There are Mormons, Catholics, J. Witnesses, Baptists. Evangelicals, etc, etc, with so many doctrines, so many prophecies that Christianity has become a tower of Babel. Getting through the smoke from the pit to find the original truth.

 

That is not unexpected.  The mustard seed is not a great tree, and the kingdom of God is not a tower of Babel, yet they both seem so have become what they are not. 

 

I guess the point I am trying to make is that each of us have a responsibility to be a truth seeker in a world full of lies.

 

Yes, but I see it like this, God has to bring the truth to us or we will seek it in vain. God has to put a LOVE of the truth in us so that we will receive it when we hear it.  You know all about 2 Thess 2, I don't have to quote it to you. If we do not love the truth we will believe a lie.  Even if we say we seek the truth, God will show us that we are liars because he will bring the truth to us and we will cast it out as an unclean thing.

 

You should check out more of my bible studies, perhaps the Lord will speak to you, perhaps not.  If you hear me attacking a man you respect, it is natural for you to resist me.  On the other hand, God moved you to write me, for whatever purpose, but that is why I write you back, because from my perspective, God sent you to me.

 

From my listening to a couple of chapters in your Revelation study I though you had a good grasp on the scriptures but have a couple of real problems with interpretations on several verses. Does that make you a heretic in my eyes? No. 

 

It makes me a heretic in my own eyes if I speak not the truth.  But that would not be my only sin.  I have faith that God is leading me away from all unrighteousness and sin.  The spirit of God is revealing truth and the grace of God towards me is leading me to every good work.  I believe that if we truly have faith in him, he will reveal to us, in his time, what we need to know, the we may be cleansed from heresies and from other sins.

 

Nor did Pastor Murray when I didn't agree on some of his interpretations.

 

Well, someone is a heretic.  You can't have two opinions and no heresy. Maybe both are heretics, but at least one.

 

Should I set up my own special web site to debunk some of your interpretations and doctrines?   No.

 

Well, there are already thousand of sites like that. Anti-predestination, anti grace, pro Sabbath, etc. None of them really have my name on them because my teachings are not particularly remarkable.  And the most unique aspects of my teaching have not really come into question yet because they are not very well known.   Maybe someday, when i have "former students" they will do so. 

 

You are not my student, so you would really know enough about my teaching to know the really unique things I say that set me apart from other teachers and would make a page about me worth making. Arnold Murray is a different case, he had so many unique and bizarre aspects to his teaching that one would be hard-pressed to teach against his teachings without making reference to him. I actually studied with Pastor Murray.  I believed his doctrines.  I have standing to speak on these things.  If you were to start in against me you would probably not draw much interest.  Sort of like when Christian Research did that Paper on Murray, it was just an outsider grazing the surface of Murray's teachings, they did not understand him, so their writing was not very compelling to people who do know him.

 

I will not do that because we are all fighting darkness in this age, so why should we fight one another when the enemy is at our gate.

 

The enemy is in our city.  The enemy is saying he is us.  That is why we fight one another.  Because we are not all us.

 

What we should be teaching Christians is to put on our gospel armor and coming together to fight the propaganda and lies of Satan that are splitting us further apart. That I know we can agree on.

 

Sure.  But you and I say the rapture is the propaganda of Satan, and these say it is not.  Can two walk together except they be agreed?

 

What is the Gospel armor, and how do you put it on?  Is it magic?  Is it just a metaphor?  What? 

 

I do not worry about divisions... When you were listening to my revelation study, did you hear some of my statements on the rapture?  Because I have come to believe that the rapture itself is just another heresy.  Why do Arnold and I get a pass for our heresies, but rapture people do not?  How do you know they will worship Satan?  How do you know that God will not open many of their eyes?  I sought truth for a long time before God really opened my eyes to a lot of it.  I do not despise the longsuffering of God, he will open our eyes in his time.  All our eyes.  I just need to be faithful to what he has already revealed. 

 

BTW..a couple of articles and e-mails on Pastor Murray that you published and criticized. This past week I heard his answer on drugs from a question, 2014 events forecast,  

 

Hmmm, well I think I said I was not sure what he says on that, and I have come to think that woman probably misheard him, but I'll be looking for it.

 

and knew his affliction had slowed him down, and his cognitive discourse was effecting his speech and mind. His answers and even some of his interpretations, 2014  were off the mark or discombobulated due to his illness. And yes he died this week.

 

He was always off the mark.  Hopefully his ministry will die with him, due to the ineptitude of his sons.  Everything he believed about that satellite dish was just a passing thing, I don't know if you heard the old tapes with him going on about "big momma" and all the angelic visitations and all that.  The internet has diminished the power of  mega-ministries like his forever.  No wonder he hated the internet.  

 

I am at your service,

 

Sincerely

Paul Stringini

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