"I saw Murray say that there is no going to be no rapture before the rise of the Antichrist." Arnold Murray and the Shepherd's Chapel

I've watched the television show Shepherd's Chapel several times to see what Arnold Murray says is true word of God. I saw Murray say that there is no going to be no rapture before the rise of the Antichrist. But Christ says differently as he said two will be in the field, but only one will be taken. I asked Murray why would Christ speak of returning and taking God's children, if this was not talking about the second rapture, but Murray didn't answer this question. He said everyone will be left upon this earth to go through the seven year tribulation of the Antichrist and only will Christ return.

Well I have to say that I do not believe in the rapture, I believe in the resurrection. What they call the rapture is taken from 1 Thessalonians 4, but that passage is about the resurrection. They took the part of the resurrection where we get caught up to Christ in the air and spun-off a whole new doctrine. I did a paper on Death and Resurrection which you may find interesting. http://oraclesofgod.org/doctrine/03_the_resurrection_of_the_dead.htm

I would add that I do not think that people who believe in the rapture are automatically going to worship antichrist or any such thing. I do think that people who are not prepared spiritually to meet God will be deceived. And that might include some people who use the rapture as an excuse to live a carnal lifestyle. I really don't think most folks who believe in the rapture are like that. When we place our faith in Christ and follow his teachings and example he will lead us to all truth by the Holy Ghost, I believe therefore that if the rapture is a false doctrine Christ will lead people away from it. But the rapture itself is just a part of the resurrection that they have splintered off, so at the core, there is no harm in believing we will be caught up to meet the Lord, that is essentially true.

But to answer your main question "The one shall be taken the other left" Jesus repeated that formula on a number of occasions. Usually people assume that it is better to be taken than to be left. And it might be something we could argue about if it wasn't for one fact. In Luke 17 Jesus clarifies what is meant by this saying.

Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

We know where the one left is. They are left in the field, they are left in the bed, they are left at the mill. So it must be the ones who are taken that the disciples are asking about. Where are they taken? Christ gives a somewhat cryptic answer. "Where the the body is, there will the eagles be gathered together." Body, means "corpse." Where ever the corpse is you will find the carrion birds gathered. It is a very simple statement. Basically he said, you can find where they are taken by following where the carrion birds gather.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Prophetically, is where we find the gathering of the carrion birds. The supper of the great God. So from a prophetic standpoint, we want to be left, not taken. So Jesus was not talking about our being "caught up together" to meet him in the air when he talked about "one taken and the other left." One taken and the other left refers to something else. Revelation bears this out at several points.

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Removing the candlestick out of its place is a negative form of "taking"

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

A remnant is something that is left over when other things have been removed.

We want to remain. We do not want to be taken, not left. That is according to the analogy of "the one left and the other taken" because those that are taken, are taken to the place where the carrion birds feed on their flesh.

The following passage also comes to mind:

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

Those that are taken are taken by the apostasy and by the deception of Anti-Christ. It has nothing to do with the resurrection.

I believe that we shall be caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air in the resurrection. That is when Christ returns. I do believe that the church shall play an important role in the tribulation. One of the easiest prophetic interpretations one may make is the identity of the two witnesses. The two witnesses are the two candlesticks (Revelation 11). The seven candlesticks are the seven Churches (Revelation 1), Therefore the witnesses are churches. Five of the churches are apostate and are taken in the deception of Antichrist and become the great whore. Those which remain become the two witnesses. I recommend my study in the book of Revelation. http://oraclesofgod.org/studies/66_Revelation/66_revelation.html

The Bible says only 144,000 righteous virgins that have never heard the word of God will be saved during this seven reign of the Antichrist. How many children will be born worldwide in seven years, because these newly born children will have never heard of God? Murray says this doesn't matter, because a man of faith will enter into heaven after the seven year tribulation of the Antichrist. Do you believe this to be true?

I don't agree with the interpretation that the 144000 have never heard the word of God. I have a different interpretation. The 144000 are those who are truly born again through the resurrection. They are pictured standing with Christ on mount Zion so this must be when he returns. There is no way to stand before the throne of God faultless except by the grace of God and the power of the resurrection. Children are sinful. Having had seven I can tell you that they go astray from an early age and do things which they know are wrong even in the first year. They are disobedient, self-willed, and self indulgent. I love them but they are sinful. In the resurrection the corruptible bodies are transformed to be like his incorruptible body. The flesh which was defiled is replace with that which is undefiled and uncorrupted. Those who stand on the mountain with Christ are not flesh and blood men but resurrected and regenerated men and women who have entered into the kingdom of God. This does not mean that these are the only ones who are saved (but it very well may), but I suspect these are the ones who will stand with him on the mountain in that day. I don't know how many people can stand on mount Zion at one time but the number is not infinite!

I believe that Christ is coming to earth, and we will be caught up in the air to meet him. But the air is not heaven. We are not caught up into heaven, that is not what Paul said, he said the air. The air only extends a few miles up. Jesus is returning to Jerusalem and so it makes sense that we would meet him in the air so that we may return with him.

I just covered Revelation 14 in my bible study on revelation so you might have interest in that, or maybe you already saw it.

Murray's said many times that Satan is heaven today and gave Bible verses showing that this is not true. Murray says Satan's physical body is in heaven while his soul walks upon the earth.

Maybe it is good that I waited to answer your question because I cover a lot of this in my study on Revelation 12. I don't know if I would be as specific as Murray is about this stuff. Satan is an angel so talking about a "physical body" is very questionable. But there is a point in time where, after Satan is cast out of heaven, it says this :

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

I don't know of any time in history where the world has really changed like that. Right now people could say what Peter said they would say.

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

After Christ ascended to heaven, there has not been this great Satanic outbreak. The world seems to have continued pretty much as it had from the beginning. We see the influence of Satan in the world. But there is a degree to which he is restrained. Paul Spoke of this:

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

"Letteth" is old English, but the word means "restrain" The devil was restrained in the days of Paul and he is still restrained to this day. I do not believe that the church is what restrains him, far from it. The church is so full of sin, it is a shame to even speak of such things. If anything, the will and longsuffering of God restrains the Devil, but he will be ejected from heaven and that is when it says "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea" which I tie to the three woe trumpets which I think herald the appearance of Antichrist.

Lucifer was an angel in heaven that turned against God and no angel has a physical body that anyone can see.

Well, I don't know if I would say he cannot be seen. God can see him. And if God allows it, He can certainly manifest himself.

2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

This verse says that Satan may appear as an angel of light. That implies that he can take on a visible form.

How can Satan's physical body be held in chains in heaven like Murray teaches?

Well, that is not just Murray saying that.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

I don't know if that means it is a "physical" body, in the sense that we think of "physical" but Satan's power and influence, his very being will be bound in chains. Chains of iron? Well, I don't know, but even if it is symbolic, the meaning is clear. The devil is now restrained, he is going to be loosed for a little season and then restrained again (and loosed again, one final time).

Murray also teaches that animal will enter into heaven after their death. God says no animal has a soul and told Paul that every can be eaten with thanksgivings.

Well, that is all speculation. I think there will be animals in the kingdom of God. A living planet is much more interesting than a dead one. I don't think animals have a resurrection, but I don't really know if it is possible to bring them back. I think that in the resurrection we will be able to let go of lost pets and all that. They are beasts.

Does this mean that every dead animal will enter heaven as Christ says straight and narrow is the way into heaven, but few will find their way in?

Well, I don't talk much about "going to heaven" and all that because I believe that the kingdom of heaven is coming to earth. There will be a new heaven and earth and we will be heirs of all of it. I seek to enter into a kingdom. The dominion of God is not only of heaven, for it is written that heavenly Jerusalem itself will descend from God out of heaven. So the world is going to change. Will there be animals there? I don't see why not, but I don't see a resurrection for dead animals. Not that it's impossible. But we really don't know.

Are animals more important that mankind whom Christ died upon the cross for? Murray says they are.

You are right, the bible is concerned about people. Christ did not lay his life down for animals. But I do think there will be animals in God's kingdom. It's just an opinion though. Not a very important idea.

Blaspheme of the Holy Ghost is when one says they speak through the guidance of the Holy Ghost God's words, but use people's trust in them to condone sin and spread deception.

Well, Christ said specifically

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Since blasphemy of the holy spirit is so serious, I don't really mess with it. What I mean, is that I am very reluctant to accuse anyone of that. When they called the spirit that was in Christ an unclean spirit, that was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. When Christ called himself the son of God they called that blasphemy. Blasphemy is basically when you call God Satan and Satan God. So when they said Jesus had an unclean spirit they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

What you described is a sin. But it is not really blasphemy of the holy spirit in the technical sense. BUT, if they do not repent of the sin you describe, they will perish just as surely as any blasphemer of the Holy Spirit. What you described is most definitely a grievous sin. I would call it blasphemy of the truth.

It's wrong if one makes a mistake in teaching God's word once or twice, but this is not blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. But when this person has been told by God and shown by other followers of God that they are wrong, but continue to speak these deceptive words, this becomes blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Has Murray went that far yet according to you, because many people follow his deceptions and not the word of God?

I can't say that. I understand how that what false teachers do is LIKE blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. But I would call it blasphemy against the truth. I do understand where you are coming from, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, and there is the Spirit of Error. If you are talking out of the spirit of error and call it the spirit of truth, that is blasphemy against the spirit of truth. When Jesus told those people that they were blaspheming the Holy Ghost, they had just seen him cast out a devil, and they said he had an unclean spirit and cast out devils by the prince of devils. I don't like to go as far as the Lord did because I don't know what is in men's hearts. I like to think Murray means well. I don't know if Murray has gone too far, but I did say that he would die and never see his false visions come to past, that his works would be burned and nothing would remain. But as Paul said, their works may be burn the they themselves can be saved "yet so as by fire." Murray would have to repudiate his works to enter into the Kingdom. Anything is possible with God. But with man it is impossible. So if God intervenes Murray might repent and repudiate the false teachings. I think he has only committed blasphemy against the truth, since he has called lies truth.

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini