Return to "The Shepherd's Chapel and Dr. Arnold Murray" Main Page

"I Have Sought the Truth in Many Many Many Churches with Many Many Many Pastors and Teachers Over the Years."

Question/Comment: 

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:04 AM

Subject: Murray and your website

Hello. I read your site statement about your experiences with Arnold Murray. I have seen him on TV for years, but only his question and answer shows.

By the way, I am a former attendee of one minor and one major bible college in City and State Withheld in the 80s, but I did not graduate, so I am not a novice.

I have recently become aware of the doctrines of Murray that you say are incorrect. One in particular, the serpent seed, is actually from William Branham, whom many people deified in the 40s. I had studied him years ago but did not fully grasp or understand his teaching on this subject until not long ago.

I am a retired air force chaplaincy airman from California and have worked with countless ministries over the years. my education in Tulsa allowed me to rub shoulders with many of the "charismatic"  leaders who live there. It became too big and I left Tulsa, along with my suit, and moved to a small town, where I have been since then.

I have sought the truth in many many many churches with many many many pastors and teachers over the years. I have found that error in dealing with the bible in this world is inescapable. No one has it all completely right. This should not be a "salvation" issue. God knows our frame. We are merely humans. What is, in my personal conviction important is what we do with the bible and the word of God, and how we use it, and our motive.

This email is not to correct you, only to give you my personal conviction. we all have our own, and it is more important to "live" your convictions than "preach" them. Many years ago I began writing gospel songs/music etc. I really believed some of them were directly from the lord as "gifts" to me personally for my own edification and strength. I love the lord deeply for this. I looked around and saw bible people selling their songs, selling books and tapes, selling sermons, and otherwise merchandising god, the creator of the universe. depending on men to buy their product. products that were freely given to them by god.

All of this activity is well accepted in the Christian world. however, honoring god would be to, make your sermon, song or teaching and make it available for free, and then trusting god for the means to continue doing this. there is NO biblical scripture that addresses this issue, but Christians continue to sell books, CD's, tapes, and sermons. so, 15 years ago I professionally recorded two different music CD's, had them professionally made into CD's, had 500 copies made of them in total, and went around and gave them away to random people that I would meet. not to try to get publicity for a recording contract or make money, but just in a sort of self obedience to god the father, the creator of all things.

Now, I hear your dealing with Arnold Murray and I say "fine", looks like there are some errors there and questionable doctrine. you say " a little leaven leavens the whole lump", I say "show me a man/pastor/teacher who does NOT have some error in their ministry/church/life etc."  You "sell" your music at your site and you ask for donations.

It is MY humble opinion, and conviction that that could be "your" error. I do not know. Asking is begging. I ask god for my sustenance  in this life, and his leading has always been to work at a job and give everything away. and that is what i have done, and what I will continue to do. I have over 700 music videos on YouTube since 2008. many are covers of secular songs etc, performed live in front of a camera. it is just a photo album of my life in song that I have rolling around in cyberspace so that my son will have a record of who I am after I pass on.

Since you sell your music by way of man made money exchange "PayPal" or Soundclick or whatever, I see you as no different at all from pastor Arnold Murray. thank you for reading my email. you seem to be a very intelligent person, and I hope you can grasp the simple sincerity of my intent..

cheers,,
Name Withheld

My First Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 3:40 PM

Subject: Re: Murray and your website

Hi Name Withheld,  Thank you very much for writing and for expressing your convictions so thoughtfully. I'm going to address your message in parts.  Please be sure to read what I have taken the time to write, as on one or two points you have got the facts wrong (especially about my music).

 

hello. I read your site statement about your experiences with Arnold Murray. I have seen him on TV for years, but only his question and answer shows. by the way, I am a former attendee of one minor and one major bible college in City and State Withheld in the 80s, but I did not graduate, so I am not a novice. I have recently become aware of the doctrines of Murray that you say are incorrect. one in particular, the serpent seed, is actually from William Branham, whom many people deified in the 40s. I had studied him years ago but did not fully grasp or understand his teaching on this subject until not long ago.

 

Yes, and It is present in the writings of the 9th century Jewish Midrash.  And it goes back even further to some of the Gnostic writings (the so-called Gospel of Philip) And most likely predates even that writing. Paul warned us not to give heed to "Jewish fables"  and that is how I classify the serpent seed doctrine.  It is a fiction, read into the bible, likely of Jewish Mystical origin (somewhat ironically since it is a favorite doctrine of people who say the Jews are the serpent seed)

 

I am a retired air force chaplaincy airman from State Withheld and have worked with countless ministries over the years. my education in tulsa allowed me to rub shoulders with many of the "charismatic"  leaders who live there. it became too big and i left tulsa, along with my suit, and moved to a small town, where I have been since then. i have sought the truth in many many many churches with many many many pastors and teachers over the years.

 

You must have had some very interesting experiences.

 

 I have found that error in dealing with the bible in this world is inescapable. no one has it all completely right. this should not be a "salvation" issue.

 

If that were the case then Paul was asking Titus to do something that was technically impossible. (and there are many other similar passages)

 

Titus 2:7 In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine showing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Uncorrupt, sound, doctrine is not unattainable.  What keeps us from it is our own pride and stubborn clinging to things that do not belong in our doctrine.

 

Corruption implies "adding" things to the doctrine which are not essential parts of it.  When you say "this should not be a salvation issue" you hit the nail on the head. 

 

The serpent seed doctrine, for example, adds nothing to us.  It does not help us become more like Christ.  It does not assist us in any way shape or form except to make us feel like we "know something"  As you know, knowledge puffs up, but charity edifies.  There is no charity in the serpent seed and therefore when we hold to it, it corrupts us.  When we hold to all kinds of unsound doctrines our faith becomes corrupted by them.  I have seen this first hand.  In my own experience and observing others.  I would wager that you have also seen this.

 

What you may not know is that in Arnold Murray's doctrine what identifies us as one of God's elect is our ability to comprehend "who the Kenites are"  to have "eyes to see and ears to hear," is to be able to see the serpent seed doctrine as truth.  Perhaps you see how in that case it is a major corruption of the gospel. 

 

Another Example, some people believe the bible teaches the earth is 6000 years old, and other believe it leaves room for a much older earth.  I used to have an opinion, but I realized that this knowledge added nothing to me so I stopped having an opinion on the subject.  Then I became part of a church where they believed the Earth was 6000 years old, I didn't care one way or the other, so I just let it go.  Well, after a while one of the Elders started wanting to bring in Anglo-Israelism and Saturday worship, and a number of other things and the Pastor objected.  I told him, "How can you object when you hold the same kinds of doctrines?"  He preached that Jesus did not have long hair, was crucified on a Wednesday, that his ministry was only 1 year in length, and that the earth was only 6000 years old.  I suggested that if he wanted to exclude doctrines which do not edify, that he ought to start with himself and purge out the leaven.  Well, he did not hear me and I ended up leaving, a year later that church split in half because of strange doctrines. 

 

This is actually one of my favorite verses

 

1 Cor 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

 

Substitute "knowledge" for meat, because that is the real subject of 1 Cor 8.

 

1 Cor 8:8 But knowledge commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we know, are we the better; neither, if we know not, are we the worse.

 

I speak of the knowledge that does not lead us to salvation. God is not handing out prizes to the human being who is most clever among us, he did not leave us a book of riddles to test our imaginations.  It is not a question of "is the earth 6000 years old" or "is the earth 6 billion years old"  The question is this:  What happens when my pastor is preaching that the earth is 6000 years old and someone walks in, ready to hear the gospel, but who does not believe the earth is 6000 years old?  I'll tell you what happens, he thinks the pastor is an idiot and becomes prejudiced against whatever else  he might have to say. 

1 Cor 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

But people love to think they know secrets, and they love secret and mysterious doctrines. 

 

2 Tim4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

That is the world we live in.  It seems impossible to have uncorrupt doctrine because man LUSTS for secret and forbidden knowledge in much the same way he lusts after other things.  Was it not so in the Garden?  The first sin man committed involved the LUST for secret and forbidden knowledge. 

 

When the simple message of the Gospel (which is not so simple to live, but can be lived when we continue in the faith and give heed to the doctrine which is sound) becomes polluted with other doctrines we do come into peril. I KNOW because this was my sin.  We think that what we have learned is the knowledge that saves us, but the true knowledge of salvation gets crowded out.   Corrupt doctrine will corrupt, it is not a question of getting the right version of "how old is the earth"  It is rather a question of asking ourselves whether such ideas have any bearing on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and if not, we excluded them.  The age of the earth is not a salvation issue and people ought to be able to have all sorts of opinions about the subject, it is no corruption of the Gospel to say either way.   When we enshrine these various opinions as "truth" and tie them to our "essential beliefs"  we have crossed the line, and now our opinions become leaven and cause division and strife.  All these unnecessary doctrines, when exalted in the church, or in the preaching,  add nothing to our faith and they become points of debate and stumbling.  

 

I find it is easy to purify my doctrine because I have made that my goal.  Simplify and purify.  I do not think I am perfect in doctrine, but I trust and expect God will give to me according to his word.  We still believe in God.  We do not believe that God's words are vain.  In doctrine uncorrupt.

 

When people write me, sincere in their faith, and tell me that they agree with a lot that I have to say, but that they still believe in the rapture or something, these days I do not just say, well, you need to repent.  (Though this may be the truth)  What I say, and what I truly believe, is," I trust and pray that God will reveal to us, in his time, the fullness of his truth, your faith in Christ will lead you to all that is true in him as he will also lead me."  Not that I never debate the subject, because I believe the resurrection of the dead is an essential doctrine of which the rapture is a corruption.  But I do not condemn.  God is patient with me, so I trust him to be patient with others.  I require the patience of God and so I do not want to despise his patience with others.

 

Maybe you have read some of my correspondence with people from the Shepherd's Chapel.  Understand, that was my only "formal" education in the bible.  The fruit of Arnold Murray's ministry has come back to bite him.  My feelings about his teaching are based on first hand experience in that cult. 

 

god knows our frame. we are merely humans.

 

No doubt, we are but flesh.  But what has he given us?  What can I expect of HIM? 

 

II Corinthians 7
1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

 

You seem like you would tell me that it is impossible to "perfect holiness"  I think having spent so much time with so many men has prejudiced you in the matter of what is possible with God when he promises something.

 

The limitations you say we cannot overcome are based on what you know man is capable of, and you are right, with man it is impossible.  But it seems to me that you have not yet mentioned that we have placed our faith in a powerful God that has made extraordinary promises to us.  You express faith in the feebleness of man.  But as believers we ought to judge the matter rather by the power of God who has made promises. 

 

2 Peter 13 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

I put my faith in those words.  By my faith in Christ I have access to great power by which I might overcome the weakness of this frame and do that which it is otherwise impossible for man to do.

 

what is, in my personal conviction important is what we do with the bible and the word of god, and how we use it, and our motive.

 

Well, I agree, but we cannot judge the motives of others, only our own. 

 

this email is not to correct you, only to give you my personal conviction.

 

Well. when convictions clash, even if slightly, it sure seems like correction.  While I trust you are not motivated by a desire to correct me, that is essentially what you have done in your letter.  By expressing your convictions to me, you challenge my convictions.  But I'm not too big to be corrected, even if that is not what you desired.

 

"error in dealing with the bible in this world is inescapable"

 

"having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. "

 

Interesting contrast in statements, eh?  Many similar words "error - corruption"  "in this world"  "escaped - inescapable"  The only unmatched terms are the bible and lust, but I think they make an interesting contrast.  The bible is not the problem, it is LUST.

 

Error in dealing with the bible in this world comes from the lust by which we heap to ourselves teachers.  According to Peter, in Christ,  we have already escaped this by the promises of God.  I do not believe in a merely "theoretical" escape from this corruption.  I believe that through faith we may obtain the substance of the promises ( through the longsuffering and patience of God), by patiently seeking the objects of these promises.

 

we all have our own, and it is more important to "live" your convictions than "preach" them.

 

I agree, that living is more important than talking.  Beyond that I think you are overlooking our obligation to our brothers/neighbors

 

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Keeping our convictions to ourselves is a form of hatred.  When we refuse to tell someone "Hey, That is Sin"  (And heresy is sin) We are treating them with contempt.  Their souls are not worth us troubling ourselves over the matter.  We would rather have peace now, and watch them destroy themselves, than take a risk to help them get on the right path.

 

In other words sometimes living our convictions is inseparable from preaching them.  Because to live it can be to speak it.  When we keep silence, we will have hated our brother in our heart.  That is why I am glad you wrote me, you ought to speak up.  Keeping silence would be like saying "That Stringini guy is probably not going to hear me, why should I go out on a limb for his sake? Better to keep my mouth shut."  Not that we should not use our judgment.  But that we ought to use care.

many years ago I began writing gospel songs/music etc. I really believed some of them were directly from the lord as "gifts" to me personally for my own edification and strength. i love the lord deeply for this. I looked around and saw bible people selling their songs, selling books and tapes, selling sermons, and otherwise merchandising god, the creator of the universe. depending on men to buy their product. products that were freely given to them by god. all of this activity is well accepted in the Christian world. however, honoring god would be to, make your sermon, song or teaching and make it available for free, and then trusting god for the means to continue doing this. there is NO biblical scripture that addresses this issue, but Christians continue to sell books, CD's, tapes, and sermons. so, 15 years ago I professionally recorded two different music CD's, had them professionally made into CD's, had 500 copies made of them in total, and went around and gave them away to random people that I would meet. not to try to get publicity for a recording contract or make money, but just in a sort of self obedience to god the father, the creator of all things.

 

I do not brag about my ministry , but you compel me to defend myself.  In 1998  I published my first CD of bible songs, I had 1000 copies manufactured, created a website and invited people to send me their addresses and I would send them a free CD.  At my own expense I sent out the first 1000 and then I began printing more on my computer to cope with the additional requests. I got requests from all over the world and probably spent more money on postage than on CD's. Eventually, because CD's have gone out of fashion, and the great expense, I shifted to all downloads, people would just download my music from my website for free.  I have maintained this website since 1998 paying 90% of the cost out of my own pocket.  Since the first album I added many other albums unto there were some 70+ tracks on my music page, all free. This I did faithfully for over 14 years and you can still download all my songs for free from my website, I do not know where you got the idea that you could not. 

 

In 2009 I began to lose my business, and after I had completely lost it, I thought that perhaps God wanted me to give myself more fully to the ministry.  I had long wanted to do a full-production version of the Book of Revelation album (which has been available for free since 2001 in its demo form)I thought perhaps the Lord would bless me financially through this project. I had never sought outside support for my ministry, but I began to think that perhaps I was too proud, and that I should remember that a worker is worthy of his wages.   I spent over a year working on the new Revelation album exclusively, laboring over it, my body deteriorated somewhat during this time, I poured my all into the album and released it last September.  In the course of a year, I have sold seven copies.  So understand me when I tell you that this album has not profited me, not when it comes to money anyway. 

 

 I have been considering making it free, but I have not reached a decision. Since I have not even made enough money to pay for the distribution, profit does not motivate me.  The thing is, that I have lots of FREE material on my website, and at some point the things of God should not be treated as common. 

 

2 Samuel 24:24 And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing. So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.

Sometimes we ought to consider that God gives us a lot of things and that there is nothing wrong with showing that we value what is his by laying down a little cash.

 

I already have the same songs available for free on my website, in less elaborate orchestrations, but the words are the same the melodies are identical.  The fully orchestrated album was a lifelong dream of mine,  I place a very high value on it, I laid down thousands of dollars to produce it, and I sacrificed a year of my life to perfect it.  And if only seven people value the album sufficiently to lay a mere $10 at the feet of a man who has given more of himself to others than you can possibly know,  then they should go download the free version. http://oraclesofgod.org/songs/index.htm  (the Album is called Apocalypse (disc one), go, download it for free)

 

now, i hear your dealing with Arnold Murray and I say "fine", looks like there are some errors there and questionable doctrine. you say " a little leaven leavens the whole lump", I say "show me a man/pastor/teacher who does NOT have some error in their ministry/church/life etc." 

 

I say, show me the scripture where you are taught to accept that.  You are lumping to many things together, that is called "stacking the deck"  It is one thing to "make a mistake" it is quite another to codify error and corrupt the gospel thereby.  I think I covered this.

 

If I told you, "James, God chose you for salivation, because you deserve it, because you stood against Satan when you existed as an angel in the world that existed before this world."  that is quite a different form of "good news" than "God Chose you for salvation in spite of your sin, because he is gracious to the undeserving. "  Well that is Arnold Murray's gospel in a nutshell.

 

Where do you draw the line James?   How much false doctrine is acceptable?

 

you "sell" your music at your site and you ask for donations.

 

No, I sell one album of 10 songs, songs which (I repeat) are otherwise available for free.  Did you look at my songs page?  http://oraclesofgod.org/songs/index.htm  Apocalypse disc one is totally free and it is the same identical album as the one I have for sale.

 

My ministry took in something less than $400 last year in donations.  Even small churches take in more than that on any given Sunday, and return far less...

 

it is MY humble opinion, and conviction that that could be "your" error.

 

I tried it the other way for over a decade.  I did not have a "donate" button.  I had not produced an album which people had to pay to receive. 

 

i do not know. asking is begging.

 

Perhaps, but where is the injunction against begging?  You find it distasteful.  Well, that is your opinion.  I once held that opinion, because of the influence of Arnold Murray, but as you probably noticed, he asks for money every single broadcast.

 

I've been thinking of revamping my website again anyways.  The people who support my ministry have trouble getting the donate buttons to work and I get no end of trouble from people who seek occasion against me over the stupid things.  On the one had I do not intend to back down for my enemies' sake.  On the other, I like to simplify my life.  I'll probably end up taking the donate buttons down, and going with a comment on my "Contact page"  "For information on supporting this ministry, email etc... 

 

But what do you think?  Should I actively refuse donations?  Last year someone wrote me "how do I donate to your ministry" he had never noticed the buttons.  And that is really what it comes down to.  If you are looking for faults, you will doubtless find them.  But those who seek righteousness in Christ will not be disappointed either.

 

I ask God for my sustenance  in this life, and his leading has always been to work at a job and give everything away.

 

Name Withheld, From my perspective, what you lack is empathy.  I'm not going to sit here and start talking about myself, I'm willing to let God judge between you and me as to who gives more of themselves to others.  I do what I do as a father of 7 and husband according to what God has given me.

 

and that is what I have done, and what I will continue to do. i have over 700 music videos on YouTube since 2008. many are covers of secular songs etc, performed live in front of a camera. it is just a photo album of my life in song that I have rolling around in cyberspace so that my son will have a record of who I am after I pass on.

 

You remind me of my father who plays the guitar and sings, Homemade Gospel tunes, Johnny Cash, Elvis, etc.

 

since you sell your music by way of man made money exchange "paypal" or soundclick or whatever, i see you as no different at all from pastor Arnold Murray.

 

As far as I am concerned you have totally got the wrong conclusion.  All my music is free except for one album and those songs are available free too, just not in full production.

 

Not to mention my free bible studies which amount to over 100 hours of teaching.  Not to mention all my writings which are pages in their hundreds, free.

 

thank you for reading my email. you seem to be a very intelligent person, and i hope you can grasp the simple sincerety of my intent.. cheers,, Name Withheld

Thanks for writing and I would only trouble you to take a little more time to see that every song I have ever written can be downloaded for free.  http://oraclesofgod.org/songs/index.htm

For over 14 years, thousands of people visit my website monthly and download my songs for free, only seven people have found my latest works worthy of purchase and those sales did not even pay for the cost of publishing the album (not including any of the work I put into it).  and even fewer have donated to me in the past year, so don't compare me to Arnold Murray.  My children carry the laundry water from our house in buckets.  I have one operable car, a 1992 Cutlass.  My house needs a new roof a new septic, and my children need new shoes.  My life is a testimony against Murray and all like him.  I only take donations so that people who believe in my work can share in my bounty.

 

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini

 

Emailer's First Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 5:42 PM

Subject: answer to recent email

I will keep this short, first of all, my email to you was absolutely NOT to try to correct you at all, but to offer another perspective from someone who has tried to be led by the lord for, maybe many more years than you, with experiences with, possibly more denominations and ministries than you. that is all. What you do with your music, your teaching etc selling it or giving it away, is totally your conviction. I listen to Ben Heath quite a bit on jootube and he sometimes pauses to "sell" his CD's, and he has recently offered a monthly partner thing I don't agree with really. but i have found him to be quite sound. your quote follows:

The serpent seed doctrine, for example, adds nothing to us.  It does not help us become more like Christ.  It does not assist us in any way shape or form except to make us feel like we "know something"  As you know, knowledge puffs up, but charity edifies.  There is no charity in the serpent seed and therefore when we hold to it, it corrupts us.  When we hold to all kinds of unsound doctrines our faith becomes corrupted by them,,,   

I do not agree at all, not one bit. acknowledging  this theory has caused me to understand more things than i had thought possible. in all your getting, get understanding, correct? if you know about the Hegelian dialectic there are things I don't have to explain here. you probably are familiar with this idea. and if you have read the protocols of the learned elders of Zion, and think it to be a simple hoax, then, we cannot communicate much about this subject. there are a lot of things that  i have not settled on, but, over the years, I DO think in my heart, the core of my being, that there ARE Jews who really do hate god, and they hate his people and they worship at the synagogue of Satan, and they would like to use many groups to fight among themselves, and then step in later and destroy them all, having used them at their advantage. my point here, or example would be the book of Esther. take it or leave it.,,,,,,,,,           

You have said something about Murray's doctrine having to do with having lived before in an early age etc, and that is his doctrine in a nutshell.  i find this statement to be incredulous. absolutely incredulous. and to refer to him as a "cult" is your right, but a cult uses people, manipulates them, and has a hidden agenda they take your money or your kids then comes the Kool-Aid. I do not see that in any shape, or form with Murray. I do not agree that you seem to think that it is possible to be fully free from any "error". there is NO one person or group who has perfected every jot and tittle of the bible in their understanding. there is too much humanity in the world for that to be possible.  your idea of "lust" may be different than  mine. think it is possible to have lust rooted out of your heart by the work of the father via the holy spirit. lust of ANY kind. 

another quote :::: I find it is easy to purify my doctrine because I have made that my goal.  Simplify and purify.  I do not think I am perfect in doctrine, but I trust and expect God will give to me according to his word.  We still believe in God.  We do not believe that God's words are vain.  In doctrine uncorrupt. end quote  

Maybe we are dealing in semantics here, but if you are not perfect in doctrine then there is some error.  

another quote    You seem like you would tell me that it is impossible to "perfect holiness"  I think having spent so much time with so many men has prejudiced you in the matter of what is possible with God when he promises something end quote.

I never said nor did I ever mean to imply by saying "god knows we are human etc" when i see the term "perfect", to me that is a coming to maturity.  

another quote  Well, I agree, but we cannot judge the motives of others, only our own.    end quote,,

I do not agree here at all. it does not take much of a degree in theology to figure out that a TV evangelist has a wrong motive... you have completely lost me here. I do not go around judging people's motives, but there is a discernment via the holy spirit to understand these types of things. I can judge the motives of others. I deal with people daily. I have a friend who is very selfish, thinks of himself first, and can look a gift horse in the mouth very easily. even with those faults god still has me in work situations with him, even thought there was a time that I wanted to have nothing more to do with him. but god is god and I have to do what i have to do by obedience.  another quote 

In other words sometimes living our convictions is inseparable from preaching them.  Because to live it can be to speak it.  When we keep silence, we will have hated our brother in our heart. end quote.

I do not agree here. many people are quick to speak and slow to listen. I sometimes post at certain Christian sites and I have found times when I keep my mouth shut , later down the line  god opens an opportunity to deal with someone later in a wiser way than to, say, throw pearls before swine. let me say to you again. I do not care if you sell your music or not  . that is YOUR decision... you also said that I remind you of your dad or someone who plays guitar Elvis, Johnny Cash etc. I also have some of my original gospel music on my youtoob site. and if you have not heard me, then maybe  that was a presumptuous thing to say. I put up videos of myself since 2008,out of vanity, I am sure, but my intent was to have a living photo album of myself for my son when I pass on. that is all. at one time I thought i might meet other musicians etc, but, at this point i do not care about that anymore.


another quote   (This is a mixed quote, his words and mine) now, I hear your dealing with Arnold Murray and I say "fine", looks like there are some errors there and questionable doctrine.

 you say  "a little leaven leavens the whole lump",

i say "show me a man/pastor/teacher who does NOT have some error in their ministry/church/life etc. "

"I say, show me the scripture where you are taught to accept that." end quote,,, 

 

You, Paul cannot show me a bible verse that says you should not take the bible in the form of CD's, sermons, music etc, and sell it rather than giving it away first and expecting god to give you increase to continue. you cannot. therefore i stand by my statement. this is where i am. this is what i know within myself. 

It would seem to me that by your email, Paul, that you think it is possible to be completely without error in your understanding. if you think this I do not understand you at all.

I think I am pretty good with empathy in regards to your view of my email. have had a lot of opportunities to employ it. i was a foster parent for many years and dealt with a lot of people.  You are simply way out of line there.

As I said before I am over 60 now and I do not think it is right for me to put a price tag on any bible based things. I said that was my conviction, I live it, I do not preach to others they have to be this way. nothing more to say about that...  

Well, I have probably said too much and not enough... thank you sincerely for responding to my email in such a contemplative manner. I would like to say, I still don't see much difference in you are Arnold Murray or any other, seemingly sincere person who has some tact and wisdom in dealing with people. some of your comments seem to come from a point of a person who feels they have been betrayed by a cult and they have arrived at a perfected sinless state of teaching, doctrine, etc that can be attained by anyone that would just read the verses you gave me concerning it.

One more quote from you  : you seem like you would tell me that it is impossible to "perfect holiness"  I think having spent so much time with so many men has prejudiced you in the matter of what is possible with God when he promises something. end quote,,  

I never ever said or even implied that it is impossible to come to maturity in holiness when I said men are human and god knows our frame. maybe your spending so much time in what you say is a cult has prejudiced you when you read a simple statement like the one i made here. it is error to read something into what someone says. I am sure I do that, heck, we all do it I am sure. it is called communication LOL..

Finally, having said too much and not enough again, there are Jews in the world who say they are Jews but they are not. regardless if Paul has said we wrestle not with flesh and blood, etc,, in this world that is not the case anymore. there are physical enemies and we Christians have to deal with it.

When Christian pastors are demanded to "marry" gay people in the coming future, try telling them the enemy is not physical.  in the world we have, wherein, people of faith are accusing each other of false teaching, error, this is a cult and that is a cult, we should remember what William Cooper said, who, whether you agree with him or not, was murdered for the stand he took. he said that there are no more real  new testament churches, just small cell groups. i really think that is where this whole thing is going. once again, thank you for your kind reply. it is one of the better ones i have received..

Some of my jootube experiences is with people who plagiarize others' teachings/vids, post them, and when you call them on it, they curse you and block you. and when you remind them of it when they have commented on someone else's video, they come back to your site and curse you again because you have blocked them. so there is subterfuge going on about everywhere. we are continually bombarded with information.

And yes I am a conspiracy theorists. i think there is a faction of Jewish people who want to control the world, they are in politics, religion, the media and they are playing everyone against the other, but they like to howl about how they are mistreated. the anti Jewish defamation league is no better than the ACLU. just pompous fluff. I hate them with a perfect hatred. bye now,, Name Withheld

PS   the serpent seed in no way is a serious and dangerous concept that corrupts the gospel of Jesus Christ. that is where we differ.         
                 

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 7:54 PM

Subject: correction

i left out "not"      reminds me of my jootube experiences  with people who plagiarize others' teachings/vids, post them, and when you call them on it, they curse you and block you. and when you remind them of it when they have commented on someone else's video, they come back to your site and curse you again because you have NOT blocked them. so there is subterfuge going on about everywhere ( my meaning was that there are cowards who block you from communicating with them, but they still like to come back and comment to you because you have NOT blocked them.)

My Second Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:33 PM

Subject: Re: answer to recent email

Hi again Name Withheld..

 

i will keep this short, first of all, my email to you was absolutely NOT to try to correct you at all, but to offer another perspective from someone who has tried to be led by the lord for, maybe many more years than you, with experiences with, possibly more denominations and ministries than you. that is all.

 

I understand that it is important for you to make me understand that you do not intend to correct me.  I don't understand why  this is important to you, or what virtue you see in such statements.  Its kind of like opening an argument by saying "Now, I don't want to argue."   You may not want/intend/dream of correcting me; but I see no virtue in that.  Only timidity.  You say you don't want to correct me, but then you sure do make me FEEL like you want to correct me. I FEEL like you want to correct me but you don't want to be seen as the sort that goes around correcting.  Well, that is how I see you, so you might as well give up trying to convince me.  My conviction, is that your words are "unintentionally" corrective. 

 

what you do with your music, your teaching etc selling it or giving it away, is totally your conviction.

 

Yes but you wrote me to tell me that you had a conviction (based on misapprehensions) that what I do ought not be done and that I was no different than Murray.  When you tell a man you think what he is doing is wrong and then you compare the man to his enemy, don't you think it is natural for him to see those words as "corrective?"  Not that there is anything wrong with correcting.  Rebuke, Reprove, Exhort, I say.

 

I listen to Ben Heath quite a bit on jootube and he sometimes pauses to "sell" his CD's, and he has recently offered a monthly partner thing I don't agree with really. but I have found him to be quite sound.

 

Monthly partners... James do me a favor, If I ever to consent to such a scheme, assassinate me, please. Never heard of him, don't like him already.

 

your quote follows: The serpent seed doctrine, for example, adds nothing to us.  It does not help us become more like Christ.  It does not assist us in any way shape or form except to make us feel like we "know something"  As you know, knowledge puffs up, but charity edifies.  There is no charity in the serpent seed and therefore when we hold to it, it corrupts us.  When we hold to all kinds of unsound doctrines our faith becomes corrupted by them,,,    i do not agree at all, not one bit. acknowledging  this theory has caused me to understand more things than i had thought possible. in all your getting, get understanding, correct?

 

Yes, but get the correct understanding, because anything less is folly.  The Apostle John made it very clear that the children of the devil are not defined by their carnal ancestry.

 

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

Why did Cain slay Abel?  Was it because his daddy was the Devil?  No, it was because his own works were evil and his brother's righteous.  

 

1 John 3: 7-12 defines the children of God and the children of the devil,  it mentions the "seed" of God.  We are his seed, the children of the devil are the Devil's seed.  But they are not a carnal seed of the devil any more than we are a carnal seed of God.  Righteousness defines the children of God, DOING righteousness.  I did not say it, the Apostle said it. And sin defines the Children of the devil.  

 

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

This passage is all about the children of god and the children of the devil, I recorded a song of this chapter.

 

The Jews who put Christ to death were the children of the devil, but Christ himself said this to them:

 

John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 

 

He said "I know that you are Abraham's SEED"  right before he told them they were of their father the Devil!  That is because they were CARNALLY Abraham's seed, but spiritually they were the children of the Devil and that is the only way you can logically work those two ideas together.

 

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

 

He acknowledged that they were the SEED of Abraham, but also insisted that they were not his children.  the only logical way you can resolve this (other than by saying the Lord is intentionally misleading us by "humoring the Kenites" ) is to see that they were Abraham's children carnally, but spiritually of the devil. If you try to reverse that it does not make sense logically. 

 

How do you explain how they were Abraham's seed, and yet not his children?  How can they be both? 

 

Cain is not in NOAH's genealogy, and no wonder, Noah did not descend from Cain.  But Adam is definitely in Cain's genealogy.

 

Genesis 4 is CAIN's Genealogy, and ADAM is IN it.

 

Genesis 4:1

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Verses 2-16 are inserted parenthetically to explain Cain's disinheritance. Verse 17 continues the genealogy of Cain.

Genesis 4:17

And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
.

The bible makes it clear that Cain was the product of the union of Adam and Eve, just as Enoch was the product of the union of Cain and his wife. 

Even if you consider Cain and Abel twins, It is not unusual for one man to impregnate a woman with twins.  The wild scenario presented by the serpent seed doctrine is not in Genesis or anywhere else in the bible.

 

Wholly seduced?  No.  That word does not mean "sexually seduced" it is used many times in the New Testament and never in that way.  You can't just say that Eve had sex with Satan and conceived Cain because of 2Cor11 saying she was "seduced."  The word means deceived.
Look at all the uses of Exapatao:
 Ro7:11 deceived me and by it slew me
Ro16:18 deceive the hearts of the simple
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself
2Co11:3 as the serpent beguiled (deceived) eve
2Thess2:3 Let no man deceive you by any
Not a hint of sex in the context of any of those passages

Exapatao (beguiled) is a compound word from ex meaning "out, from" and apatao meaning to delude, cheat, or decieve, "Exapatao" basically means "Out-cheated" like Out-run, Out-fight, Out-spit, Out-shoot etc. it never means to seduce sexually, ever, wholly seduced, fine, sure, maybe 100 years ago that would have been a decent translation, but in MODERN English that is way too suggestive, when we say "seduced" in modern English, sex is implied, it was never so for Exapatao.
 
Here are the uses of Apatao the root of Exapatao
Eph5:6let no man deceive you with
1Tim2:14Adam was not deceived...woman being deceived ...that one is downright interesting
Js 1:26 his tongue, but deceiveth his own

I have created a page to deal with this issue.

 Those are all the uses, notice how it was said that Adam WAS NOT deceived (read "seduced") But according to Genesis , he ate the same fruit that Eve ate, and people suggest to me all the time that there is more there than meets the eye and suggest that Adam might have had sex with the serpent too.  I say "hogwash."

 

Did you ever consider that "touch" can mean sex, even in English, even today?  Yes it can, "did you touch my little girl?"  It all depends on context.  There is no sexual context in Genesis 3.  The bible describes a tree that "grew from the ground" and had edible fruit on it.  No sex. The same word is used to describe the Angel of the Lord "touching" the inside of Jacob's thigh.  You can't go reading sexually suggestive meaning into every "know" and "touch."  Getting understanding means getting the wisdom to know when you have gone off the deep end.

 

I believed the serpent seed for about 13 years so I am deeply familiar with it. It is not supported by the scriptures unless one allows oneself to become sloppy and yield oneself to lazy and unsound interpretive practices.  I know that is harsh, but we ought to subject our fantasies to a harsh light.  To change the story in the garden to a sexcapade ought to require some very heavy collaboration.  But people do not cross check the usage of "beguiled" Their itching ears tell them that no further investigation is required.  I can remove every supporting scripture, the thing has no legs.

 

if you know about the Hegelian dialectic there are things I don't have to explain here. you probably are familiar with this idea.

 

Yes, it was the philosophical framework that generated many bad 19th century ideas such as Communism.  Forgiving that... 

 

There are two seeds: The seed of God and the seed of the Devil.  Both seeds are spiritual.

 

The parable of the wheat and the tares is a good example of this dialectic, but the seed is not a carnal seed, it is a spiritual seed defined by works as I have briefly outlined above.

 

if you have read the protocols of the learned elders of Zion, and think it to be a simple hoax, then, we cannot communicate much about this subject.

 

Well, I fail to see the point in that.  I have read the protocols.  And hoax or not, it has little bearing on the question.  Just because evil men do evil and plot evil does not mean the Devil is their literal carnal father.  Having the Devil for a father might explain their sins.  But what is our excuse?  If they are sinners because the Devil is their father, what is our excuse? 

 

The Jews are the enemies of the Gospel, and the degree of enmity is directly proportional to their hatred of Christ.  It has nothing to do with their race.  I know their Talmud is full of evil doctrines, and they own that one.  So what?  Shall we pluck up the tares?

 

If the Jews are plotting against organized religion, what is that to me?  Have they not plotted against Christ since he walked this earth?  but you can't say that it is their race.  It is their doctrine.

 

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees

 

beware not of the seed of the Jews, but beware of the ideas of the Jews...

 

One of the doctrines of the Pharisees is found throughout the Talmud and you even see it come out in the Gospels.  They were obsessed with the idea that they were the seed of Abraham, Christ acknowledged their literal descent but said they were of the devil, because of their works (as 1 John 3 confirms)  And the Apostle Paul said that a true Jew was not one outwardly but inwardly. 

 

I think that Murray's serpent seed/ Anglo-Israelism is a very Jewish doctrine.  He forgets that true Jews, true Israelites are not so because of their ancestry, but because of their faith in Christ.

 

That is why I consider Arnold Murray as much of a synagogue of Satan as the Jews who reject Christ.  By following the racial obsessions of the Jews, he has accepted their leaven.  There are many ways in which I now see Arnold Murray's doctrine as very Jewish, the way he suggests people use deceit (covert activity), his observance of Jewish holidays and customs, etc.

 

there are a lot of things that  I have not settled on, but, over the years, I DO think in my heart, the core of my being, that there ARE Jews who really do hate god, and they hate his people and they worship at the synagogue of Satan, and they would like to use many groups to fight among themselves, and then step in later and destroy them all, having used them at their advantage.

 

There are a lot of people that hate God, but it has nothing to do with Eve having sex with Satan.  Why do you think that explanation makes any sense?  Even if Satan was MY father, why would that guarantee that I would be exceptionally wicked?  BY THE WAY, WHO WAS SATAN'S FATHER????

 

Just cause your parents hate god does not mean you are destined to do so.

 

My point here, or example would be the book of Esther. take it or leave it.,,,,,,,,,           

 

Well, I don't have much use for Esther.  But so what?  Take the book of Joshua.  The Israelites slaughtering everyone in sight.  What is your point?  Take Kings.  What about David?  What was his excuse for being a murderer? 

 

Are you saying that the Jews as a people are more prone to violence and revenge than other people?  And that the explanation is that the Devil is their father?

 

I don't get that out of the bible. 

 

You have said something about Murray's doctrine having to do with having lived before in an early age etc, and that is his doctrine in a nutshell.  i find this statement to be incredulous. absolutely incredulous.

 

I'm not sure if you meant my statement or his statement.  You should hit return once in a while to divide up your ideas.  it would help me understand.

 

and to refer to him as a "cult" is your right, but a cult uses people, manipulates them, and has a hidden agenda they take your money or your kids then comes the Kool-Aid.

 

Well that is a very specific definition of a cult.  Technically speaking "cult" refers to the form of our religion.  But in the modern sense it means a dangerous or harmful deviation from sound doctrine (whatever one defines sound doctrine to be).  I suppose one man's cult is another man's orthodoxy. 

 

I do believe Arnold Murray is manipulative.  He flatters and uses confidence tactics on people.  "don't trust me!" These sorts of statements are designed to disarm people.  "He MUST be trustworthy!  Did you hear how he said we shouldn't trust him?  Anyone who says that obviously has our best interests at heart."

 

He says, "I never beg"  but asks for donations every single broadcast, and runs commercials selling his tapes for "donations."   he makes his students think it is wrong for those that labor in the word to make a living from the word.  But that is what Paul taught

 

1 Cor 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

 

And at the same time that hypocrite is living the high life off the ministry.  He does not get paid for teaching, but he is also the president of the network, and if that is not the ruse, his sons are very well paid.  The guy flys around in an aircraft paid for by the ministry.  It's hypocrisy and deceit.

 

Also you judge a tree by its fruit.  His students are testimony to the nature of his ministry. 

 

 i do not see that in any shape, or form with Murray.

 

The cool aid is his doctrine.  And it is poisoned.  Sorry you don't see that.

 

 I do not agree that you seem to think that it is possible to be fully free from any "error". there is NO one person or group who has perfected every jot and tittle of the bible in their understanding. there is too much humanity in the world for that to be possible. 

 

Again, you lump two ideas together.  This is a straw man.  You do not have to perfect every jot an tittle of the bible to be free from corruption.  You just have to exercise restraint in what doctrines you put into your mix.  You leave out unimportant stuff and you pray for understanding in that which we need to know.

 

your idea of "lust" may be different than  mine. i think it is possible to have lust rooted out of your heart by the work of the father via the holy spirit. lust of ANY kind. 

 

Well, lust is inordinate desire, you can lust after many things.  "and a tree to be desired to make one wise"  Eve lusted after the fruit to be made wise, to be like God.  And it led her to disobedience.  God gave no commandment concerning sex with the devil, by the way...

 

In order to believe in the serpent seed doctrine we have to do something forbidden, we have to use our imagination and intrude into things which the bible does not say.  "intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind," (col 2:18)

 

2 Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

I think it is possible to have lust rooted out of your heart by the work of the father via the holy spirit. lust of ANY kind. 

 

So do I. And I'm much younger than you.  My father tells me it gets easier as you get older.  I have observed that myself. 

 

But if you believe this, then why do you tell me it is impossible to have false doctrine rooted out?  When I received the Holy Spirit, that is EXACTLY what happened to me.  His power came over me, he turned me from my sins,  and he changed my mind and opened it to what he had been saying all along in the word.

 

another quote ::::
find it is easy to purify my doctrine because I have made that my goal.  Simplify and purify.  I do not think I am perfect in doctrine, but I trust and expect God will give to me according to his word.  We still believe in God.  We do not believe that God's words are vain.  In doctrine uncorrupt.end quote    maybe we are dealing in semantics here, but if you are not perfect in doctrine then there is some error.  

 

I did not say I was not perfect in doctrine.  I said I do not THINK I am perfect in doctrine.  I don't THINK I have any error in doctrine either.  Let me ask you.  Do you think that you are holding onto false doctrine?  Of course not!  No one does.  No one knowingly holds false doctrines (unless they are faking their faith)

 

I have spent years studying, I do not believe I am holding any error in my doctrine.  But I could very well be blind to something, as I was once blind before.  So I remember this scripture.

 

1 Cor 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

 

Perfect, is something more than just "purging out the leaven" Though, you can hardly be perfect with leaven,  still there is far more to perfection than just eliminating false doctrine.

 

another quote    You seem like you would tell me that it is impossible to "perfect holiness"  I think having spent so much time with so many men has prejudiced you in the matter of what is possible with God when he promises something end quote. I never said nor did I ever mean to imply by saying "god knows we are human etc" when I see the term "perfect", to me that is a coming to maturity.  

 

Well, you are just looking at the verb,  what about the object?  HOLINESS.  Can we become fully holy?  Can we bring holiness to a full ripened maturity?  You can't just write-off terminology by saying "perfect" means "mature"  Be ye perfect even as your heavenly father is perfect.  What do we say?  "bah!  Perfect means mature, that's all."

 

We are called to live righteously, soberly, and Godly in this world.  And purging out false doctrine is very much a part of that.

 

another quote  Well, I agree, but we cannot judge the motives of others, only our own.    end quote,, I do not agree here at all. it does not take much of a degree in theology to figure out that a TV evangelist has a wrong motive...

 

Judging motives is a dangerous business.  I do not recommend it.  I prefer to judge fruit.  Make the fruit evil and its tree evil.  When you start judging motives you start ignoring the bad fruit ( I think his heart is in the right place, even if some of his actions are questionable)

 

Or you start making presumptions about people.  I'm not saying it is impossible to judge motives, what I mean is that we cannot do it without risk of misjudging.  I shouldn't have said "can't" I should have said "ought not"

 

but we cannot judge the motives of others, only our own

 

but we ought not judge the motives of others, only our own

 

That's is what I should have said.  Yes, I know it seems obvious that some people are only motivated by money, etc.,  but I'm not willing to judge their motives when I have a more sure indicator of their nature.  FRUIT.  Christ said we would know them by their fruit,  I don't need to know their motives, I have the fruit and that is sufficient.

 

you have completely lost me here. I do not go around judging people's motives, but there is a discernment via the holy spirit to understand these types of things.

 

You lose me here because you contradict yourself.  You talk about how you don't go around Judging motives then go on to give me an example of you going around judging motives claiming that the holy spirit is helping you do it.  You don't go around correcting people either, or so I've heard....

 

i can judge the motives of others. I deal with people daily. i have a friend who is very selfish, thinks of himself first, and can look a gift horse in the mouth very easily. even with those faults god still has me in work situations with him, even thought there was a time that i wanted to have nothing more to do with him. but god is god and I have to do what i have to do by obedience. 

 

So you do judge motives, you just don't "go around" judging motives. Whatever distinction you draw there is beyond me... You judge the guys on TV and you judge the people you deal with daily.  You think you know their motives. 

 

I consider that risky behavior.  We judge fruit not motive.  Because the road to hell is paved with good intentions motives are not even worth judging.

 

Another quote  In other words sometimes living our convictions is inseparable from preaching them.  Because to live it can be to speak it.  When we keep silence, we will have hated our brother in our heart. end quote. I do not agree here.

 

You presumed I meant that you had to shoot your mouth off every time there is silence in the world.  You misinterpreted what I said.  I'm not saying you have to be constantly pestering people.  But if you do not communicate in some way to people when communication is needed, then you are responsible for their blood.

 

Many people are quick to speak and slow to listen.

 

Ok, true, but that has no bearing on the fact that if we fail to warn the wicked when we have reasonable opportunity, we will be held responsible.

 

If you do not warn the sinner from his way, God says that means you hate him. Period.  So when the time/opportunity/conviction comes to warn, you have to do it or condemn yourself.

 

i sometimes post at certain Christian sites and I have found times when I keep my mouth shut , later down the line  god opens an opportunity to deal with someone later in a wiser way than to, say, throw pearls before swine.

 

  All I'm saying is that the bible says we are responsible for warning people. It seems like you are busy doing that... 

 

They have Moses, they have the prophets, let them hear them.  But when God calls upon us to speak, we must open our mouths and do so as well.  Paul spoke of a door of utterance.  We need to step up and step through when opportunity presents itself.

 

 let me say to you again. I do not care if you sell your music or not  . that is YOUR decision... \

 

You certainly cared enough to write me a letter!  And I certainly care that you got the wrong idea about my music.  Don't tell me what is my decision. I know its my decision, but you called my decision into question based on false information.  These statements are condescending and offensive.

 

you also said that I remind you of your dad or someone who plays guitar Elvis, Johnny Cash etc. I also have some of my original gospel music on my youtoob site. and if you have not heard me, then maybe  that was a presumptuous thing to say. I put up videos of myself since 2008,out of vanity, I am sure, but my intent was to have a living photo album of myself for my son when i pass on. that is all. at one time I thought I might meet other musicians etc, but, at this point I do not care about that anymore.  

 

I think it is fine of you to do that for your son.   I think there is nothing bad about it at all.

another quote 

now, i hear your dealing with Arnold Murray and i say "fine", looks like there are some errors there and questionable doctrine. you say " a little leaven leavens the whole lump", I say "show me a man/pastor/teacher who does NOT have some error in their ministry/church/life etc." 

I say, show me the scripture where you are taught to accept that. end quote,,, 

 

  you, Paul cannot show me a bible verse that says you should not take the bible in the form of CD's, sermons, music etc, and sell it rather than giving it away first and expecting god to give you increase to continue. you cannot. therefore i stand by my statement.

 

That, sir, is what they call a "Red Herring."

The bible says we ought to keep our doctrine uncorrupt.  Therefore we should not accept your view that errors in doctrine are a fact of life we should accept.

 

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

 

1 Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

There are plenty of scriptures that show that we SHOULD NOT be tolerant of false doctrine.  When I asked you to find one that said we SHOULD be tolerant of false doctrine it was a purely rhetorical question (Which I try to remember to avoid)  The scriptures positively declare that we should root out error and false doctrine.

 

I expect there to be heresies but they have a purpose. The purpose of false doctrine and heresy is to manifest those whom God has approved.   

 

1 Cor 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

 

1 Cor 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth

 

Leaven is any corrupting influence, person, or doctrine. Leaven ought to be purged.  We are not taught in Christ to accept leavened doctrine as unavoidable we are taught to confront and purge.

 

  you, Paul cannot show me a bible verse that says you should not take the bible in the form of CD's, sermons, music etc, and sell it rather than giving it away first and expecting god to give you increase to continue. you cannot. therefore I stand by my statement.

 

Again, the bible clearly tells us to "purge out the leaven."    Your above statement is difficult to decipher.

 

I cannot show you a bible verse that says I should not take the bible and sell it rather than giving it away first. 

 

James, you keep bringing up the CD thing. And this sentence, has way too many negations for me to comprehend.  I don't know what you are suggesting here. 

 

The bible does not talk about CD's.  But if I spent a year copying the bible by hand. I would be entitled to get paid for my work.  A workman is worthy of his hire... and thou shalt not muzzle the ox that tread out the corn.  They that labor in the gospel must live of the gospel.  I got lots of verses to justify supporting my ministry with CD sales, so if that is what you are saying you are just wrong.

 

you keep saying  you just have your conviction and it's none of your business, but then you keep trying to slap me in the face with your "personal convictions". 

 

this is where I am. this is what I know within myself.  it would seem to me that by your email, Paul, that you think it is possible to be completely without error in your understanding.

 

That is what the bible leads me to believe is possible.

 

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

 

Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

 

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

 

The bible tells me to expect enlightenment and revelation.  Not corruption and false doctrine.  The bible tells us to avoid false doctrine and keep our doctrine pure.  You are telling me this is not so. I have many verses I could go and pull out to support my view.  The things you are saying are the wisdom of man, your wisdom, your experience.

 

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

 

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error

 

1 Tim 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science (knowledge) falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

 

if you think this I do not understand you at all.

 

And if you think it is error in doctrine is acceptable I have more scripture for you:

 

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

 

Can we tell the difference between truth and error?  I can through God who give me understanding in all things...

 

I think I am pretty good with empathy in regards to your view of my email. have had a lot of opportunities to employ it. I was a foster parent for many years and dealt with a lot of people. You are simply way out of line there.

 

No, you lack empathy.  You tell me you are not trying to correct me, but totally lack the empathy to see that is exactly how you are making me feel, You lack the empathy to consider that the effect of your words is corrective, you can't just wave the magic wand of denial and make is not so. 

 

I'm not saying you are "utterly without empathy"  I'm just saying you have somewhat short of the full measure.  And this is based on your stated intention of "not correcting" me.  If that is truly your intention then you lack the empathy to see how that is exactly the way your words are naturally going to be taken by me.  And the truth is that you subconsciously know that is how your words are going to be taken, that is why you keep opening with the caveat about not correcting me.  You know you are about to correct me, but you find that objectionable, so you preamble your writing with a denial of what you are actually trying to do. 

 

as I said before I am over 60 now and I do not think it is right for me to put a price tag on any bible based things.

 

Don't you understand that if they do not charge for bibles and CD's, we won't get them printed?  Someone has to pay, you can't just wave your hands and have bibles and CD's. 

 

When my latest CD came out last September, I released it as ONLINE ONLY, there are NO PHYSICAL CD'S.  I don't have the money to print CD's I was hoping to raise money from the sale of the songs to be able to print CD's, but that has not happened, so in reality, THERE IS NO CD.  I can't print it.  If I had the money I would print it.  But I don't even have a physical CD to sell.

 

There are plenty of free bibles out there, but I had to pay thousands of dollars to obtain all the tools I needed for study  and to make music.  It is fine for you to say it ought to be free.  That would be very convenient for me.  But I've been giving away my materials for free for years, and so maybe you ought to go bother someone who is profiting financially off the word instead of someone who has given far more of their substance to the work of God than they have received.

 

Quit rubbing your personal convictions in my face, you told me you didn't want to correct me, so honor that or acknowledge the farce.  I already told you what I think of your opinion on this matter.  I thought the same thing too, WHEN I WAS 21!  But since then I've grown a little to understand that bible related materials do not grow on trees and if I was rich it would be fine to give it all away, I DID THAT FOR YEARS.  BUT now I see that there is nothing wrong with selling bibles or CD's especially when people can download THE EXACT SAME SONGS FOR FREE. 

 

I said that was my conviction, I live it, I do not preach to others they have to be this way. nothing more to say about that...  

 

You just did preach to me on that.  Sure, you don't say "you have to be that way"  But you keep rubbing your self-righteousness in my face.

 

well, I have probably said too much and not enough...

 

Agreed.

 

 thank you sincerely for responding to my email in such a contemplative manner. i would like to say, i still dont see much difference in you are Arnold Murray or any other, seemingly sincere person who has some tact and wisdom in dealing with people.

 

Thanks for the complement/insult.

 

some of your comments seem to come from a point of a person who feels they have been betrayed by a cult and they have arrived at a perfected sinless state of teaching, doctrine, etc that can be attained by anyone that would just read the verses you gave me concerning it.

 

No, not by reading, we obtain the promises of God through faith.  We go from faith to faith.  We add to our faith, virtue, to virtue, knowledge, etc.  Are the promises of God just vain words to you?  I believe them.

 

I never felt betrayed by Arnold Murray.  I've explained this on my website.  he was my teacher and I am convicted he is a false teacher and I feel especially well equipped and obligated to oppose him.  He never hurt me.  I just have this obligation to oppose his teachings.  If I came up a Baptist, I would be talking about them.  Paul preached against Judaism, I preach against Murray.

 

one more quote from you  : you seem like you would tell me that it is impossible to "perfect holiness"  I think having spent so much time with so many men has prejudiced you in the matter of what is possible with God when he promises something. end quote,,   i never ever said or even implied that it is impossible to come to maturity in holiness when i said men are human and god knows our frame.

 

Well, but that is just begging the question, what do you mean by maturity in holiness?  What does that look like? I prefer to translate "perfect"  as "complete" and this is more accurate than "mature"  Complete holiness.  We seek purity in its fullness, do we not?  What does complete holiness look like?

 

maybe your spending so much time in what you say is a cult has prejudiced you when you read a simple statement like the one i made here. it is error to read something into what someone says. I am sure I do that, heck, we all do it i am sure. it is called communication LOL..

 

Yes, granted.  But when I have to answer a long email it would be odd for me to send off to you for a bunch of clarifications first.  Plus the fact that I may not know that something needs clarification.  One man's "reading into" is another man's  "that's what I thought you were suggesting."

 

finally, having said too much and not enough again, there are Jews in the world who say they are Jews but they are not.

 

Outwardly or inwardly?  Anglo Israelites say they are Jews and are not but do lie and are a synagogue of Satan, like the Shepherd's Chapel.

 

regardless if Paul has said we wrestle not with flesh and blood, etc,, in this world that is not the case anymore. there are physical enemies and we Christians have to deal with it.

 

Shall we deal with the physical enemies physically?  What would you suggest for a final solution?

 

when Christian pastors are demanded to "marry" gay people in the coming future, try telling them the enemy is not physical. 

 

Paul was actually stoned, so don't start telling me he didn't know what kind of enemy he faced.  Its not a carnal enemy. You do err.

It is still spiritual.  

 

It's what the church gets for getting in bed with government in the first place.  Laws don't make good morals, we should have learned that in Christ. 

 

 in the world we have, wherein, people of faith are accusing each other of false teaching, error, this is a cult and that is a cult,

 

again...

1 Cor 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

 

Maybe I'm not getting you right here. But "reading into your statement" (and forgive me for doing so) it seems to me you are saying that we ought to ignore all the false teaching and error and pretend it does not exist in order to put up a unified front for the unbelievers.  I'm not a fan of that philosophy.  I'd rather have ten men of absolute conviction than 10,000 compromisers.

 

we should remember what William Cooper said, who, whether you agree with him or not, was murdered for the stand he took. he said that there are no more real  new testament churches, just small cell groups. I really think that is where this whole thing is going.

 

I don't believe in the carnal church organizations.  It has always been cell groups.  Why do you think there is a church of Ephesus, Galatia, etc.  The concept of a church unified on earth, by an earthly organization is not a new testament idea so far as I am concerned.

 

once again, thank you for your kind reply. it is one of the better ones i have received..

 

well, I try to do what I feel I owe you.  God sent you to me.  That is how I take it for better or worse. For good or for evil.

 

some of my jootube experiences

 

The whole time I've been thinking, "what is this jootube?" I finally realized you are calling it JEW-tube.  I'm disappointed.... If you mean "JewTube"  say it with conviction.

 

 is with people who plagiarize others' teachings/vids, post them, and when you call them on it, they curse you and block you.

 

Ah yes, the big block.  I never flee from combat.  I could not live with myself.  I have a "JewTube" channel, you should check it out http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulStringini  I have never blocked anyone but some of these people have blocked me and removed their comments out of their own embarrassment. 

 

and when you remind them of it when they have commented on someone else's video, they come back to your site and curse you again because you have blocked them.

 

I have a policy, whenever I write a comment on someone else's video, I delete it before posting it.  It saves endless trouble.  I try to confine my comments to my own videos and I've been 99% successful, 100% over the past several years.  I let people come to me.  That is enough.  I do not go looking for trouble.

 

so there is subterfuge going on about everywhere. we are continually bombarded with information. and yes i am a conspiracy theorists.

 

It is in man to conspire.  But I've been watching this since the 80s and I have no faith in the conspirators.  The pose more danger from their incompetence than from actually carrying out their conspiracy.  And what of it?  You have heard that antichrist shall come, have you not? 

 

The kingdoms of the world already belong to Satan.  If you try to take Satan's kingdom from him, even God will fight against you. 

 

The real conspiracy is to get you all interested in conspiracies instead of the doctrines that well help you overcome sin in the flesh. 

 

I think there is a faction of Jewish people who want to control the world, they are in politics, religion, the media and they are playing everyone against the other, but they like to howl about how they are mistreated. the anti Jewish defamation league is no better than the ACLU. just pompous fluff. I hate them with a perfect hatred. bye now,,

 

There are lots of people who want to control the world, most of them are Americans. Wait a second!  I thought the Jews already ran the world!  While you are waiting for the other shoe to drop, they are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

It is a mistake to lump all the Jews together just because there are disproportionate number of Jews in high places of power.

 

Need I remind you that JOSEPH absolutely fits this stereotype?  Not to mention JACOB whom Laban appointed to manage his flocks?  What about Daniel?  All these fit the same stereotype of the "power hungry Jew"  And what of it?  They are a competent and intelligent race, notably so.  Because God has blessed them.

 

Also taking over the world is not some Jewish Monopoly.  Christians absolutely intend to take over the world, do we not?  It is written in our book.  We are co-conspirators with Christ.   

 

PS   the serpent seed in no way is a serious and dangerous concept that corrupts the gospel of Jesus Christ. that is where we differ.

 

Yes it is dangerous.  Because it causes us to become confused about the true nature of the children of God and of the Devil we focus on the problem as a carnal problem instead of a spiritual problem.  Neither are defined by their physical descent.  I have the seed of god in me by the spirit of God, not by his penis, pardon the vulgarity but this is a vulgar and profane doctrine.  Christ made this clear when he told them they were Abraham's seed but not his Children.  I have had some people suggest this implies that they were "half breeds,"  but that is a poor compromise, they still then have to deal with the fact that they are the seed of Abraham, but not his children.  it is not because of "half breeding." I know because, Jesus himself gave the answer.  It is a spiritual problem,  the word of God had no place in them, they did not the works of Abraham. That is not a racial problem but a spiritual problem.  There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ and there is neither Kenite nor Non-Kenite either.  A true Jew is one inwardly.  The Jews who reject Christ are a synagogue of Satan and so are all those who follow their ways.

 

The fact is that we are all the children of the devil, that is why Christ came to redeem us.  We were sold to Satan through sin.   This is very basic to Christianity.  God is going to adopt us as his sons.  We are becoming his children through faith in Jesus Christ. 

 

Boast not against the branches, do you see how far they have fallen?  the same thing can happen to you.  You are talking the men whom Christ acknowledged as the seed of Abraham, and saying that they are lying about their carnal origin.  Remember, God is able to put them in your place, it belongs to them in the first place.

 

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini

 

Emailer's Second Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:01 PM

Subject: Re: answer to recent email,, very short!!

thank you again for your very long sincere answer. I will have to tell you I gleaned over the first parts of your email, because I did not want a  bible lesson from you. I did not want it to get into that. somehow I think you will probably take that the wrong way. and I AM disappointed that you seem to think that all I wanted to do was correct you. call it what you want. call me self-righteous if you wish. I sure didn't mean it to come out that way.

The biggest disappointment was telling you of someone who has a good thing going and that is Ben Heath. His YouTube channel is Christian overcomers. some of the best I have heard. and I have heard lots... I sure didn't mean for you to ignore that. if there is anything salvageable in all this, it is simply that. what i have been talking about in no way did i mean that we ignore the spiritual aspect for the carnal. by no means.

all we can do is when a scorpion crosses our path is step on it. that's it. as for genesis etc? there are countless theories of literal interpretations and the significant aspect of those scriptures. all pertaining to the creator. you know the bible codes etc, etc,, humans love to put the numbers in there, such as, 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, 2000 years from Abraham to Christ , 2000 years from Christ to the Jewish state in 1948, so we are in the 6000 year end and entering into gods rest. but why would god ,who's number is seven give that number to man?

anyway , many theories and i haven't explained this very well. there is nothing wrong with judging the motives of others. when i mean judge, i do not mean try, as in a court case, then condemn, and pass sentence. wow, you really attacked this one. this is one of the reason i think emails should be reserved for information like this : i will meet you at 730 at the coffee shop. and not what we have tried to do. i thank you for a good effort. but i feel i failed. not because i was trying to "win" anything. just trying to have a dialogue with someone who labels someone a cult.

look Paul, we are still humans, and as humans, the one thing that makes us different than any other thing is our imagination. we have tried to dialogue about different beliefs or interpretations etc, but because an unsullied communication on this stuff doesn't happen in a couple emails, the imagination takes over and we go to this conclusion and that one, and on and on. one definition of a word may have a different shade of meaning than another.. the difference in Greek and Hebrew for the word "soul" for instance......

and the other thing I cant let go,, we judge things all the time everyday every moment in some way or another. I can tell someone's motive when they look at me when I come to work,, one will have an attitude , so I say, "what's wrong" then they say " you didn't come to the meeting Sunday morning at work, it was posted on the board (this was not a supervisor, but a fellow employee) so i say, well, you know that is none of your business,(I felt no need to tell her why I was not there) and they say "well, it is not fair to those of us that had to be here",, there is a motive there and i can judge it, and I did..... one last thing. if you will type in Ben Heath, Christian Overcomers on YouTube, I would be very happy to look at your YouTube site. I will go to your site anyway, but, if anything is salvaged out of this, please give the guy 5 minutes!! forget me,, really. I hope you do well, bye now.. Name Withheld

My Third Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:39 PM

Subject: Re: answer to recent email,, very short!!

Name Withheld,

 

thank you again for your very long sincere answer.

 

You are welcome.  I give long and sincere answers because I like to receive long sincere answers in return.

 

 i will have to tell you i gleaned over the first parts of your email, because i did not want a  bible lesson from you. i did not want it to get into that. somehow i think you will probably take that the wrong way.

 

I'm used to people not reading all my writings.  Happens all the time.  But you like to have me read what you write, don't you?  Ever heard of the Golden Rule?

 

and i AM disappointed that you seem to think that all I wanted to do was correct you. call it what you want. call me seflrighteous if you wish. i sure didnt mean it to come out that way.

 

I understand that is not how you wished it to come out.

 

the biggest disappointment was telling you of someone who has a good thing going and that is Ben Heath. his youtube channel is Christian Overcomers. some of the best i have heard. and I have heard lots... I sure didn't mean for you to ignore that. if there is anything salvageable in all this, it is simply that.

 

I don't take bible instruction either.  Not from men.  I teach the bible and it teaches me.  When I was younger I took instruction, but I don't need it anymore.  Not that I could not learn from someone else.  I can and do.  But I do not watch such programs, nor listen to the radio.

 

 what I have been talking about in no way did I mean that we ignore the spiritual aspect for the carnal. by no means. all we can do is when a scorpion crosses our path is step on it. that's it.

 

My point is that there is no carnal aspect to the serpent seed any more than there is a carnal aspect to the seed of God.

 

as for genesis etc? there are countless theories of literal interpretations and the significant aspect of those scriptures. all pertaining to the creator. you know the bible codes etc, etc,, humans love to put the numbers in there, such as, 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, 2000 years from Abraham to Christ , 2000 years from Christ to the Jewish state in 1948, so we are in the 6000 year end and entering into gods rest. but why would god ,who;s number is seven give that number to man? anyway , many theories and I haven't explained this very well.

 

Many theories, but on the whole they seem to be of the variety that intrude into things we have not seen.  I'm not into various theories.  My focus is the gospel, not merely preaching it, but obtaining the promises in it and helping others to attain the same ends.

 

there is nothing wrong with judging the motives of others. when I mean judge, i do not mean try, as in a court case, then condemn, and pass sentence. wow, you really attacked this one.

 

We don't need to judge motives in that sense, that is not what I meant at all.  When I say "judge motives"  I mean in the sense of being able to tell specifically and precisely what their motive is, such as, "his motive is greed."  And once you say that, he is also condemned, because God has judged greed already and you can't sit there and say "his motive is greed but he is not condemned."  God has already judged motives.  I don't need to judge greed,  God has judged it for me.  Motives are the secrets of the heart.  If you can tell when someone is motivated by greed or not then your powers certainly exceed mine.  I have no interest in judging peoples motives, I think it is hazardous

 

James 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

 

This is slightly out of context, but the first part is not the relevant thought.  James is saying that when we are partial to people base on outward appearance, we become "judges of evil thoughts"  and that is obviously something that he is telling us we ought not be.

 

A judge of motives is making himself a judge of thoughts.  And all I can say to you is that you ought to take care when you start judging what other people are thinking, because you don't know what their thinking, even if you THINK you do.  You may sense a problem and occasionally guess correctly what is motivating people, that is not the point.  I can run through the streets naked, but that does not mean I ought to do it.

 

this is one of the reason i think emails should be reserved for information like this : i will meet you at 730 at the coffee shop. and not what we have tried to do.

 

Well there is something to that, I suppose, but it is not your intentions that I object to, I don't care about intentions.  It is the contents that I object to.  And fundamentally we have not agreed.

 

i thank you for a good effort. but I feel I failed. not because i was trying to "win" anything. just trying to have a dialogue with someone who labels someone a cult.

 

Well, we had a dialog, but I'm not about to change my mind.  It seems quite clear that neither are you.  I do not think I failed, because persuading you is only one possible outcome.  I consider myself successful when I stand up for what I believe in and I feel I've don as well as I could.  Persuading you is God's business, I just make the case.  I made my case so I'm satisfied. 

 

 look Paul, we are still humans, and as humans, the one thing that makes us different than any other thing is our imagination. we have tried to dialogue about different beliefs or interpretations etc, but because an unsullied communication on this stuff doesn't happen in a couple emails, the imagination takes over and we go to this conclusion and that one, and on and on.

 

To some degree, but that does not diminish the fundamental facts.  I may misunderstand you, and this may cause you distress.  But the central issue here is the truth.  . 

 

The fundamental truth is at stake.  You say we cannot have the truth without error.  I say  you do err in so saying.    This is such a fundamental falsehood in your thinking that it boggles my mind. When you have the truth and you add error, you get falsehood.  That is how it works.  A little leaven leavens the whole.  That is what Christ and his Apostles taught.  He came to bear witness to the pure unadulterated truth.  If we cannot find the truth without error then what did Christ come to bear witness to? We do not serve the kingdom of men, we serve the kingdom of God and God does not accept adulterated truth nor does he distribute such. 

 

What adulterates truth is man and his unwillingness to submit to the truth.  For example, someone is reading Genesis, the plain meaning on the page is very clear, They ate fruit, their eyes were opened.  Adam knew his wife and she conceived and bare Cain.  (That is a clear chain of cause and effect)  She conceived and bare Cain as a direct result of having known Adam.  But if you have a different agenda, this plain meaning must be discarded.  You refuse to submit yourself to it and after the imagination of your own heart you read into God's word ideas which God did not attempt to communicate.  This is how it always is.  They go about "proving" that their ideas are in there, but what they are doing is corruption.

 

2 Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

 

I do not teach the bible, the bible teaches me.  Error arises from attempting to manipulate and pervert the text.

 

We have different minds.  I can't read your mind, but when I hear your words or read them a portion of that mind is revealed.  And So much of what you reveal to me is so alien to me and to what I have learned by submitting my understanding to the bible that, of course, I cannot understand you on many points. This would be somewhat the same in person as it is in letters. I experience this frequently.  

 

When you tell me that we cannot have the truth without error you speak from a mind that is alien to me.  

 

WHAT IS TRUTH?  Truth is THAT which IS without error!

 

Milk May be 90+% water but we don't say "pass the water" if we want them to pass the milk nor vice versa.

 

one definition of a word may have a different shade of meaning than another.. the difference in Greek and Hebrew for the word "soul" for instance......

 

No, I do not accept this mashed potatoes version of reason and truth.  Exapatao has one meaning.  To deceive. I gave you all the uses in scripture.   The Hebrew and Greek definition of "soul" may differ but that is not where we get our definition of the soul from, we get our definition of the soul by reading what the bible says about the soul, and there is quite a bit of that.  The soul is an actual thing with but one definition. We can discern the way each word is used by the context in which it is used.  I am not daunted by "shades of meaning"  It is a common wiggle term used to avoid actually dealing with facts. Christ came to bear witness to the truth and by his spirit the truth is revealed. 

 

and the other thing i cant let go,, we judge things all the time everyday every moment in some way or another.

 

I do agree with that.  Judgment is unavoidable.  But we ought to give heed how we do it and take care.

 

I can tell someone's motive when they look at me when I come to work,, one will have an attitude , so I say, "what's wrong" then they say " you didn't come to the meeting Sunday morning at work, it was posted on the board (this was not a supervisor, but a fellow employee) so i say, well, you know that is none of your business, (I felt no need to tell her why I was not there) and they say "well, it is not fair to those of us that had to be here",, there is a motive there and I can judge it, and I did.....

 

Well, even if you are right, you are making yourself a judge of evil thoughts.  

 

 I am not the kind who thinks he knows what people are thinking.  For example, the times when I said : "it seems like you are saying"  I say it that way on purpose.  I'm telling you that so you will know how your words are being communicated to me.  I can't control your communication, that is something only you can do.  If you don't like the meaning I take from something you say, then my comment is your opportunity to correct the misunderstanding.

 

one last thing. if you will type in Ben heath, Christian Overcomers on YouTube, I would be very happy to look at your YouTube site. I will go to your site anyway, but, if anything is salvaged out of this, please give the guy 5 minutes!! forget me,, really. I hope you do well, bye now.. Name Withheld

I will give him 5 minutes.

 

I have now given him more than 5 minutes. I listened to "Victory Over Evil (Full Version)"  And regret that I will not be able to regain that portion of my life...

 

But for the grace of God, there go I.  This is precisely the sort of thing I used to believe and teach before God delivered me from being a corrupter of the word.  This is precisely the sort of darkness that I rejected in 2005 when I received the spirit of God with power. 

 

I absolutely oppose this guy. I think his video is absolutely awful.  There is more leaven in his bread than there is wheat. I watched his whole video and I think the title was totally misleading and the contents were a perfect example of what happens when we allow false doctrine to corrupt our minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

He has this comic book image of what evil is.  He seems to think that unraveling mysteries is the secret to overcoming.  He never really gets to the point of how exactly we are to go about obtaining victory over evil (he mentions David at the end). Totally reminds me of Murray.    But he does not get to specifics in any practical sense.  In my teachings I do what he cannot. 

 

I recommend you listen to my study in the book of Revelation.  http://oraclesofgod.org/studies/66_Revelation/66_revelation.html

Sincerely

Paul Stringini

 

Emailer's Third Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 3:33 PM

Subject: revelation

thank you kindly, I listened to the first 10 minutes and I am putting this on my rotation, which is, one or two teachers that i give time to every other day. I listen to vids more than I watch them. from what you said in the first ten minutes I could not agree MORE. everybody has a theory, and, it seems to be just another money making deal. there is a new breed of "Christian" blog/vid sites wherein young people are asked to send in their sordid sexual sin testimony so that they can be further freed from whatever bondage they had been into. there is even one that asks to sign a release form so that they can use the correspondence somehow. hard to see how perverted the Christian world has become, and , is becoming. so , you are against Ben Heath. ok. I am not here to defend him either. thank you for taking the time and I will and do check out your videos.  Name Withheld

My Fourth Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:56 PM

Subject: Re: revelation

Thanks for listening James, I hope you find it edifying.  Sorry we could not see eye to eye on everything.  I'm glad you shared your convictions with me, because I am seriously considering dropping the price on my latest CD to zero, it just seems like there are many good reasons to do that.  It's just a matter of time really.  I've been very busy over the weekend  and all that. Thanks for writing and sharing.  God sent you.

 

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini

Emailer's Fourth Reply:

----- Original Message -----

From: Name Withheld

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 1:10 PM

Subject: eye to eye

Surely we saw eye to eye on something. If god sent me it was to show me how little I know, and how unsure I am about almost everything I know. Like you did say, the gospel is simple, but the age we live in is seemingly so very complex.

God gave me my son, and other than that I have maybe one friend, and he is not interested in bible things. Nature of the beast in a small town. The last church I was involved in wanted to advertise so they could get more people in, but the pastor wanted to wait until the church could be painted, which they don't have the money for anyway. He teach/preaches from the hip about old testament stories etc, in charge of a homeless shelter house funded by another church, and , otherwise burnt out being in the same town for 30 years. It's good to have a big family, which, you had said you do. Thank you for taking the time,,
Name Withheld

Return to "The Shepherd's Chapel and Dr. Arnold Murray" Main Page