"I'm so confused now." Why would Pastor Murray say there is no rapture? Do you think there is a Rapture? "...Thank you so much for your info. You make more sense to me than what pastor Murray is saying."

"I'm so confused now." Why would Pastor Murray say there is no rapture? Do you think there is a Rapture? "...Thank you so much for your info. You make more sense to me than what pastor Murray is saying."

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: Name Withheld

Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:37 PM

Subject: Re: rapture

Hello Name Withheld,

The rapture is a name men came up with for the moment at the coming of Christ in which those who have been raised from the dead and those who remain alive are caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. I do not use this term because this event does not require a special name. Giving this event a special name has led to many problems in Christianity. It seems that the Rapture has overshadowed the bigger event of which it is merely a small part. Today, we hear all about the "catching up" but almost nothing about the RESURRECTION, and the resurrection is a central doctrine of Christianity.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 describes the resurrection

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

That is HUGE. But what verse gets all the attention?

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"Rapture" comes from the Latin  for "caught up" The Greek word is Harpazo.   But the real question is why do people call the Resurrection the Rapture? We had a name for this event for over a thousand years but over the last hundred and fifty years they decided to start focusing on the TRANSPORTATION aspect instead of on the TRANSFORMATION aspect of this event and gave it a name (Rapture).   I have also said in the past that "there is no Rapture" and what I meant is that the doctrine that Jesus is coming to take us away (The Rapture as it is commonly taught) is not correct. Of course we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord, as the scriptures describe, but we are not leaving the earth, Christ is returning and we will be with him.

There is no sound evidence that the transportation spoken of will take us to heaven as many believe. When Jesus comes we are going to MEET him, he is on his way here, and we meet him in the clouds,  to join him for his triumphant return to Jerusalem immediately. We meet him in the clouds because we have to meet him before he lands. Heaven is coming to earth. There is no sound evidence for any secret removal of Christians from the earth. Christians are suffering tribulation and persecution this very day, the idea of being saved from suffering tribulation is un-Christian and only makes sense to complacent and comfort loving Christians in the west.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Instead of assuring themselves that they will not be on earth for tribulation Christians ought to be preparing spiritually to stand in the spiritual battle in the day of the Lord. This is what I live for. I don't despise those who fear the tribulation but I would rather encourage them to be strong and trust the Lord.

Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

I have heard ministers talk how Christ doesn't want his bride "sullied" by tribulation. They say he does not want her bruised and battered. But they savor the things which are of men and not the things which God loves.   What sullies Christ's bride is her love of material possessions and delight in things which God despises. The bride is already dirty and polluted, tribulation will purify and prepare her.

Daniel12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

For these reasons, I don't like the Rapture doctrine as it is commonly used, and I don't teach it or use that word. You can teach Christianity without ever using the word "rapture" and you don't have to know of the "catching up", to be caught up. But you cannot be true to Christianity without teaching the hope and truth of the resurrection of the dead.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I also reject the rapture doctrine as it is commonly taught, because it tries to be replace the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead in the hearts of Christians. It also creates multiple resurrections prior to the "first resurrection" (Rev 20) It exalts itself above the knowledge of God. Yes, we will be caught up, but that is just INCIDENTAL to the fact of the Resurrection

These days people think that the dead are already in heaven. But that is an old heresy.

2Timothy 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already (or "even now is come"); and overthrow the faith of some.

When they say that the dead are "with him" "in heaven" they are basically denying that the dead are really dead and waiting for resurrection, but rather that the person is actually in heaven and that only their body is dead. But is this a scriptural view?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The bible teaches that no one has ascended into heaven except Christ, he is the "first begotten of the dead" We are going to be raised from the dead, as he was raised from the dead. As the scriptures teach, "on the last day."

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

I don't know if these things are alien to you, or not, but this is the truth. If you are looking for sound teaching in the form of line by line, chapter by chapter bible studies then I must recommend my bible studies, they are all free.

http://oraclesofgod.org/studies/studies.html

I cannot recommend Arnold Murray, he makes a lot of sense to men because he speaks in the wisdom of men, but his students turn out corrupt and bear no resemblance to the image of Christ.

Sincerely,

Paul Stringini