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"Predestination... That's a Bad Word.  For That's Not What It Is...U Believe God Knowing Past Present and Future Everything..."

Question/Comment: 

 ----- Original Message -----

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:57 AM

Subject: shepherdschapel

I dont know what to say to you...i donot follow man, and always am keenly aware of it. God keeps me on track. Nothing u said in your whatever that was...is anything more than puzzelling...about u... Not what the word says. One thing for sure...your issue with predestination...thats a bad word for thats not what it is...u believe God knowing past present and future everything...he put everyone through this anyway...wow!!! Examine that...research it well...u can make up answers to anything once u start down the path u have...r u going to be raptured now to? I dont know what to say or why Im bothering...I have witnessed to many many people...but never once was it ever fruitful where I set out as u...but several times out of nowhere people who I didnt know and didnt know me came to me...God did that...and those people to this day have Gods truth...they heard there Fathers call...nothing to do with me...wierd really but its the power of God...u with what u
wrote have gone backward and u say meat...everything    

My First Response:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 12:53 PM

Subject: Re: shepherdschapel

I certainly appreciate that this was written with the best possible intentions, and I know that you mean me well, but you are mistaken about predestination. The doctrine that Pastor Murray teaches and calls "predestination" is not the doctrine taught in the the bible.

 

u believe God knowing past present and future everything

 

God is supposed to know everything, according to the Bible.

 

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

 

When dice are thrown, the results are God's doing.  There is nothing random about it to God.

 

I assume that you believe Pastor Murray's teaching that predestination is due to the elect having made a stand against Satan in the world that was, and that the elect earned their election.  But that is not true.  It violates the very definition of the word "election" According, to the scriptures we are elect according to the grace of God, not according to works we did in another age. If it was according to works, then tthey would be called "champions" or something that would not create a contradiction of terms..

 

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.

 

Election is of God and of grace, not of the works we did in another age.

 

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

 

You may not like it, and Dr. Murray may think he is smarter than the scriptures.  But when we refuse to be taught of the scriptures we are resisting the truth.  Dr. Murray does not just teach men what the bible says, he is also teaching the bible itself what it ought to be saying according to his own wisdom and philosophy. And that is a sure way to join the ranks of those who corrupt the word of God.

 

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

 

You will say this to me.  Everyone does. But if what you believed was true, then there is no reason to even ask this question because according to Dr. Murray, because according to Arnold Murray God will not find fault with people unless they "have a chance" to believe in him and he expects everything God does to seem fair to man.  But God is not fair, God is merciful.  Remember the Parable of the workers of the field?  How all agreed to work for a penny but some worked more than others?  That is not fair.  But what did the master say?  "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with that which is my own?  Is your eve evil because I am good?"  If God were to be "fair" he would have us all killed, but God is more than fair in that he is gracious to some and fair to others.  He is unjust to none.

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

 

That is how Paul answered that question.  If we don't like what God made we ought to consider that he made US. and that if we are dissatisfied with his creation it is ourselves that are to blame because if God made us something else, we wouldn't be ourselves anymore.

 

God made us so what we do is a product of his creation.  God created the world and everything in it and everything that happens in it is his doing.  God is not like man who makes something and does not know ahead of time the consequences, no, God creates knowing full well the consequences of his actions

 

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor?

Is this true or not?  Can God do as he pleases with his creation or not?  Man does not understand God so man tries to judge and understand God by his own wisdom, that is Pastor Murray's "common sense"  translation: the wisdom of man.

 

he put everyone through this anyway...wow!!!

 

You value the things of man more than the things of God.  If you considered what God values you might not see it that way.  Pastor Murray teaches it like God owes man a living, but God owes man NOTHING.  God put us through this for our own benefit, to create in us something born of experience.  Why not just skip this all and make us the way he wanted us?  That is man's way.  God thought that doing it this way was best, and that is all the explanation that I require.  He is bringing sons to glory, as it is written.

 

...u can make up answers to anything once u start down the path u have

 

The teachings of Arnold Murray are already a result of making up answers to questions that bother men.  He has intruded into things he has not seen.

 

.r u going to be raptured now to?

 

Here is your answer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-0aPlnepPM  you have not read much of my writing.  But the answer is no. 

 

I dont know what to say or why Im bothering...I have witnessed to many many people...but never once was it ever fruitful where I set out as u...but several times out of nowhere people who I didnt know and didnt know me came to me...God did that...and those people to this day have Gods truth...they heard there Fathers call...nothing to do with me...wierd really but its the power of God...

 

The Baptists, the Catholics, the Jehovah's witnesses whoever, they all also do the same thing, they witness and people hear them and they thank God.  So what.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your civil tone and that you mean well.

 

Sincerely

Paul Stringini

----- Original Message -----

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To: Paul Stringini

Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:40 PM

Subject: Re: shepherdschapel

paul at least u are civil but everything you said is your misunderstanding of those scriptures...strange you cant see that...maybe...i

and i follow noone but God nt man or teaching i am not sheeple..i thank God do have understanding and I pray for it and try to study to show myself approved because I couldnot live without his word.

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To: XXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:05 PM

Subject: Re: shepherdschapel

Thanks for the reply,

 

paul at least u are civil

 

Some would definitely disagree with you, but I try to be civil and will definitely try to keep it that way, If we both try hard then it can definitely stay civil.  But civility is disposable.

 

but everything you said is your misunderstanding of those scriptures...strange you cant see that...

 

Actually, I do think that I really can see it, but I do disagree.  I used to come from a different perspective, so I do understand the other way of looking at those passages, I just think that the other way of looking at those passages is definitely the wrong way of doing it.

 

I think that the other way of looking at those passages is for the sake of making those passages justifiable in the judgment of man.  We desire to have God's actions make sense to us.  Everything God does has to "make sense."  I don't believe that anymore.

 

The example I like best it the example of the workers in the field who agreed to work for a "penny" and you will probably remember how more and more workers came, later and later in the day, and you will also recall how that when they were paid the master started with the last and gave them a "penny" and gave everyone a penny, but the ones who worked all day declared that it was not fair, they felt that they deserved more for having worked longer. 

 

Matt 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

That is how God is. God is just like that, God does things like in this parable.  I wonder how you would explain this.  I remember I used to think of it in terms of the elect being jealous of those with freewill, but of course now I think that is not the point at all.

 

The point is that they got what they deserved, but they were certainly right in their own eyes, it was not fair, and the message is this, God is not fair in man's eyes, but he is more than fair in his own eyes. Humans do not even deserve to live, we have even less standing than the men in this parable, because God does not even owe us a penny. But men still say that God is not fair,  God is generous and man is jealous.

 

I wish you had been a little more specific about what you meant that I did not understand, If you would rather not argue, that is fine, but still, noone has ever been able to defend the opposing idea against me.

 

and i follow noone but God nt man or teaching i am not sheeple..

 

All sincere believers think that what we follow is God, so that feeling is not a very good measure of whether we have the truth or not.  I feel like that, You feel like that, The baptists feel like that, etc. etc.  It is a nice sentiment and I certainly do not doubt your sincerety, but it is not a good way to tell if you are right.

 

i thank God do have understanding and I pray for it and try to study to show myself approved because I couldnot live without his word.

 

Well, I'll take your word for it, and assume that we will find ourselves in agreement some day in the future.

 

Sincerely,

 

Paul Stringini

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