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From Same As #27 A Companion Discussion Focusing on the Serpent Seed
(This exchange involved two separate email streams which overlapped somewhat, See the companion piece in email # 27)
When I quote this Emailer I will put his text in blue, and when he quotes me I will put my text in green ( I also use green within my own emails for emphasis, these do not always indicate quotes). Other colors are used throughout for emphasis in differing ways.
Emailer Fires From Both Barrels:
----- Original Message -----From: Name and Address WithheldTo: reborn@oraclesofgod.org (Paul Stringini)Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:01 PMSubject: look againHi PaulIts XXXXXXX again . I sent you an email on your discourse about Shepherd's Chapel and Arnold Murray. I am continuing here with some further proof that you may be wrong about :John 8-37 and 39 and Arnold might be right
The following is not my work but another's, regardless I think it would behoove you to read it
"Now think a bit about Y'Shua's conversation with the preachers in Jn 8. Y'Shua was not telling them that they were not the PHYSICAL offspring of Abraham, for they were.
(8:37). He was telling them that they were of mixed blood, and as a matter of fact, indeed part kenite,(V 44) and that according to the law, (Deu 23:2-study out the word "mamzer"- bastard) they had no business doing service in God's priesthood.. NOT because of RACE, but because of deeds (Jn 8:39-42) The key to tracing these people to the kenite-mixed Caananites lies not only in Joshua 9 (the Gibeonites), but we must put together some more of the Word, for the descendants of Midian as a Caananite tribe figures heavily in the priesthood, as well. Now we know Midian was a son of Abraham by Keturah. BUT, Midian was not a worshipper of YAH. (see who paid Baalam in Num 22:7) BTW, Moses' Father in law, a priest of Midian, was also not necessarily a worshipper of YAH. (Proof of that later) For example, the story in Numbers 25 about Cozbi (the Baal temple prostitute), indicates the sort of worship the Midianites did.
After the slaughter of the Midianites in Num 31, we see in verse 30 that a portion of the Midianite children and virgin women were given to the Levites. The rest went to the other tribes. They were thus mixed in with Israel. They had Abrahamic blood, yes, but their lineage also included, by definition, fathers from other Caananite tribes, Moab, Midian, Ammon, and the Kenites as well. Face it, everyone has 2 separate grandfathers.
Now, as to the preachers in Jn 8, they probably also were of the Gibeonites. (See Josh 9). These people of Gibeah became temple servants (Joshua 10), and mixed mostly with Benjamin (who was given to Judah). They were the perverts who molested the travellers' concubine in Judges 19:12 thru 20:43. In 1 Sam 13 and 14, Saul just about wiped them out altogether. But, we find them alive and working in the 'Levitical' Priesthood in Nehemiah 3:7 and 7:25.
These preachers in Jn 8 also state "they were never in bondage" (Jn 8:33). Thus, they admit they were not of Israel, for all know Israel was certainly in bondage in Egypt at one time. Now, something strange here. THEY knew they were not of Israel, thus they must also have known why they were doing what they were doing to Y'Shua
Well, now, back to why I think Moses Father in Law was a kenite. Moses had two sons, right? Was not Moses God's chosen Priest? Why, then, were AARON's sons instead of Moses sons chosen to continue the Priesthood? To me, the reason is stated in the Word. They were part kenite. Their grandaddy, Moses Father in law, Zippy's dad, was a Kenite!
No-it is not race that dooms you, it is your actions without Y'Shua. Apparently, the sort of Cozbi-style baal-worship was going strong in Midian, and Jethro put up with it. A midianite Priest is one thing, but there is no evidence he was a priest of Yah. We have lots of priests nowadays, reverends too. They are not all of the same father.
Let me know what you think --- XXXXXXXXXXXX
My Response: edits in maroon and in (), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----From: reborn@oraclesofgod.orgTo:Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:50 PMSubject: Re: look againThe whole idea is self-contradictory, on one hand the writer admits that they are "Abraham's seed" (on one side of their family) but on the other he is saying that the statement "were never in bondage" proves that they were Kenites on the other side. (maybe it is not entirely self-contradictory but I think the next point is more important)This is all assuming that "We be Abraham's seed and were never in bondage to any man," means, "None of our ancestors were ever in bondage, or only half were," (BUT it must be understood that) it might just mean that those people were saying that they themselves were never personally in bondage. People (from the Shepherd's Chapel) always assume that they were talking about their ancestors, I guess because of the reference to "Abraham," but it does not have to mean that.If my grandmother's side was in bondage but my grandfather's side was not, I cannot say "I am my grandmother's child and none of my relations were ever in bondage" And that is what the writer here is saying.I'm writing this very quickly but the whole thing is a self-contradicting mess, if you get my drift.He also tries to say it is "not about race" but makes the whole thing about race (or better said, about clan) by saying that the people involved were "part kenite" it just all leads to more and more unrighteousness...As far as "mixed lineages" go, this is just the sort of fruit that the doctrine of Arnold Murray creates. People start obsessing about genealogies"Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."People spend all their energy investigating these so-called "deeper truths" and the real truth is that their lives are still soaked in sinfulness. These doctrines do not minister salvation, are useless and run counter to Christian thinking. In Christ these matters are supposed to be put away; race, position, etc.Sincerely,Paul
Emailer's Response:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:05 AMSubject: Re: look again
Hi PaulIts XXXXXXXXXXXX Again. It seems that we get nowhere discussing these issues. Valid points are denied ,denied, denied.In John 8 Jesus is in a conflict with the scribes and Pharisees. The scribes and Pharisees are bringing Christ's Genealogy into question and Christ responds and gives them the lowdown on their genealogy. He is addressing them as a group, not as individuals. Now it is only logical to say that there where legitimate Jews in the body of these scribes and Pharisees, but we know and you know that the Nethenim had infiltrated the priesthood in the times of the first temple .Now how many times during the reign of the kings of Judah were these Nethenim cleaned out to always come back again to pollute the priesthood, even into the second temple. So who was running the show during Christ's time with even a roman appointed high priest. Can you vouch that that high priests credentials where valid.
These are the words of Christ:
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Now answer me a question--Did God appoint the priesthood to sit in that seat of Moses or did he appoint the scribes and pharisees?In Mathew 23 Christ blasts this group for 38 verses read it yourself,and he targets their genealogy in the following verse:Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.Christ is exposing none other then that so called religious community of men that has always polluted the priesthood of Israel and the true word of God and the so called church today, but just Imagine ,right back to the righteous blood of Abel.Who's religion is that ? Well I would say none other than Cains true fathers religion.Now lets get back to the seed of Abraham again. Ishmael was of the seed of Abraham .His seed claims that to this very day. Were they ever in bondage as a nation as the seed of Jacob was? Is the seed of Ishmael of the promised seed of Abraham?The answer is no and no. There is a question of legitimacy here. Lets face the facts ,Ishmael was an illegitimate son of Abraham. For 3500 years that illegitimate seed has been trying to destroy the legitimate seed to this very day.It is right in our faces today ,the nations of the British commonwealth and America are paying for it this very day for forcing Isreal to give up land for peace.Forcing peace on Israel with the nations of Ishmael that have vowed to wipe it out and push its inhabitants into the Mediterranean.For this very reason America is having a financial and economic meltdown as prophesied..Why is this happening? I will tell you why.Its because our people have been kept ignorant of these very facts being discussed here by the manipulations of the Kenites in our liberal society,allowing God to be taken out of our education, laws, and governmentYou cannot poo poo the Ishmael issue away, they are involved in every hotspot in the world today, and don't tell me as Christians that we are not to be aware and that this knowledge is counterproductive to the ministering of faithThis seed is being driven by an alien religion which is trying to destroy both Israel and ChristianityAre we not told to keep our eyes on Israel as the barometer for the return of Christ? Why bother, there is no point to it unless you know biblical historyPlease don't call me a racist ,I did not say that Ishmael was a kenite. It is just an other group claiming legitamacy because they are the seed of Abraham.Wait till they want to bring shari law to the US., can"t happen you say,30% of industry and property in America has already been bought up with useless American petrodollars, useless I say because in America is the only place they can be spent.Already American soverign law is being trumped by international lawWho owns all the American petro dollars?All this because people are ignorant of the word of God.Because some would spiritualis the facts away and say that they are not relevant to a Christians life. Those that use the word of God and twist it against itself as evidence that it is not validP.S I know that you find it hard to believe that satan knew eve carnally but is satan not a fallen angel and a son of God? Do you find it hard to believe that the sons of God entered into the daughters of men as Gods word declaresGen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.Now don't tell me that these sons of God were men, for flesh men do not produce hybrid giants. Was it not satans intent to pollute the race of men and thereby prevent the birth of Christ? How often did he attack that thin read thread throughout biblical history, from Eve to the birth of Christ."And also after that" is the very reason that Israel was ordered by God to completely annihilate those nations that occupied the promised land, which they never did, because there were giants in the land in those days .But then its all irrelevant today to know who the enemy is the same as it was in those days because that would be racism.XXXXXXXXXX
My Response:
----- Original Message -----From: reborn@oraclesofgod.orgTo:Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:28 PMSubject: Re: look againXXXXXXXXXXXX,Here is the real serpent seed doctrine.While you are stumbling over who peoples parents were in John 8; Jesus was busy "PREACHING THE GOSPEL"33 ... how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.If you sin, then you do not serve jesus Christ, you serve sin, and Satan, then you are of the Devil more than any Ishmaelite or Midianite or Kenite ever could be. That is the true serpent seed7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
When the harvest comes it will be easy to tell the wheat from the tares, the tares will still be commiting sins, the wheat will be doers of righteousness. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR GENES.10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.Honestly, Gla 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.The only way we will agree is if God would have mercy on you to give you eyes to see the truth. I once thought that by following Dr. Murray's teachings that I had "eyes to see" There is no way I would ever go back, I will not return to my vomit like a dog, I have heard all the vomit you are offering me, I used to push that vomit, I used to desire for others to lick up Dr. Murray's vomit with me, but I have no desire at all to lick up the vomit which you are filling my inbox with."and don't tell me as Christians that we are not to be aware and that this knowledge is counterproductive to the ministering of faith"That is exactly what I'm going to tell you. It is absolute crap. and at least real crap is good for fertilizer, these doctrines are good for nothing except to titilate the minds of the weak away from the grace of GodTitus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;Knowing all that stuff does nothing for you, Shepherd's Chapel people don't get it, you think that by watching current events and "knowing who the kenites are" that you will be ready for what is to come? Not a chance. Satan is not going to be stopped by that kind of knowledge, that kind of knowledge cannot save. All satan needs is for you to have one sin on you and he HAS you!AMENI will pray for you,Sincerely,Paul"P.S I know that you find it hard to believe that satan knew eve carnally but is satan not a fallen angel and a son of God? "You don't appear to know as much as you think you do. I don't find it hard to believe, I used to believe it and teach it. Now I find it impossible to believe because it is not in the bible, that is not what happened in the garden."Do you find it hard to believe that the sons of God entered into the daughters of men as Gods word declares"No,
Emailer's Response:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:32 AMSubject: Re: look again
Well HallelujahYou do believe that the sons of God tried to pollute the gene pool of Eve !Hi Paul, It's XXXXXXXXXXXX
Paul I detect a lot of anger in your replies if you dont want to discuss further thats ok.You said that all satan needs is for you to have one sin on you and he HAS you!That is true, but he has all of us everyday including you and if it wasn't for you reflecting and repenting at the end of the day and asking for forgiveness you would go to bed in that condition.You keep dogging this issue that I think only people with a certain gene pool are sinners and that is not true. I sin ever day and anyone who thinks he is above sinning everyday is a liar. The bible is full of men called righteous by God who sinned. Its because when they realized it or when confronted by God they repented and that is what made them rigteous. There is a reason the lords prayer incorporates asking for the forgiveness of our trespasses on a daily bases.Christ said (Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.) We can never be good but our struggle is to try.
Christ today stands in the Gap between a vengeful God and man. Any righteousness a man may posses is Christs righteousness.There is an agenda in the spirit world that is manifested in the physical world and we are supposed to be aware of it . Satan is not going to be stopped by any man that is a given. God tells us in his word how and when and where he will stike and act in these last days, if you want to stick your haed in the sand that is your prerogative .You say there is no gene pool yet you say these tares where created specially and specifically to do what they do, Christ himself stated that satan planted them . How do these tares appear in our world ,by magic or by the womb? If it is true about these tares then nothing about them is happenstance.Most of the old testement is about prophecy of the end times and a large part of the new especially Revelations. You would negate the importance of the prophets in these end times and deny that we should study and know them and watch the signs of the times. God sent his prophets and they where slaughtered, they where the true Christians the righteous men of God.This is what Jesus said:Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.And not only that but they killed the greatest prophet of all, Christ himself.
They killed them physically from righteous Abel unto Zacharias son of Barachias.Would you be a partaker with them and kill them spiritually by denying what they died for?I guess God sent them in vain if we dont look and listen to what these men died for. But then that is exactly what Christ is saying . He is telling them that their fathers did not want to hear the prophets then and they don't want to hear him now. And its no different today. I hope you will put your arrogance ,pride and hate aside for a moment and truly look again.Its no big spiritual mystery what God wants us to do, he gave us the ten commandments to live by and Christ added another and that was to love your neighbour as yourself. But noooo! some people want to make it complicated and mysterious and become very judgmental and say you can't and will never see.Paul I appreciate you praying for me , but maybe we should pray for each other.P.S. Could you tell me what the Gospel is?XXXXXXXXX
My Response: I never responded to this last message, mostly because I was embroiled with this writer in another thread (see email #27). But looking it over now, for the website I wanted to respond to a few points. (And the emailer has been notified)
Well Hallelujah! You do believe that the sons of God tried to pollute the gene pool of Eve !
Just in that simple statement is summed up alot of what is wrong with the shepherd's chapel. Belief in Dr. Murray's strange doctrine is cause for rejoicing. But believing that one should live a righteous life is contemptible. What utter perverseness. Also, that is not what I said, this was the question I agreed with:
"Do you find it hard to believe that the sons of God entered into the daughters of men as Gods word declares"And I said "No." as in no I don't find it hard to believe that. But he jumps to the conclusion that because I accept what the bible says that I also accept the interpretation that "They were trying to pollute the seed" I don't accept that.
You keep dogging this issue that I think only people with a certain gene pool are sinners
That is not what I was saying. I think that because my serpent seed doctrine is about sin that he thinks that I am saying that only the serpent seed (as in a literal race) are sinners. My point is that what makes us children of the devil is not having literally descended from him but from sin. Sin makes us children of the devil.
I sin ever day and anyone who thinks he is above sinning everyday is a liar
Absolute trash. That statement is a fat lie. I don't sin every day, the idea that we "have to sin every day," is a lie and contrary to everything the scriptures teach. It makes my blood boil when I hear people proudly declare that they sin daily. It is no badge of honor to continue in sin.
the lords prayer incorporates asking for the forgiveness of our trespasses on a daily bases
Uh, no, it does not. Yes it says "forgive us our trespasses" but that does not mean that we have to do a daily trespass. It makes me sad, people have really missed the whole point of why Christ died, so that we could be made free from sin. Most people think that even suggesting that we stop sinning is itself sinful and blasphemous, Satan is truly masterful in his works.
Christ said (Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.)
I should have asked this guy if he thought Jesus was good or not. It is an interesting question. Was Jesus Good? Do you dare say No? Who do you believe he is?
We can never be good but our struggle is to try.
I could never say that I am good. Neither could Jesus say that about himself, but this is what he will say to those who truly serve him.
Mt 25 21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord
If it is impossible to be good then this verse could never come to pass. So I have to disagree, I deny that I am good, but it is not impossible for me to become good.
Any righteousness a man may posses is Christ's righteousness.
Not so, men can possess righteousness that is not Christ's righteousness. God does not accept just "any righteousness" and say, "that is Christ's righteousness." God is very particular and very strict; there are many kinds of righteousnesses that God will not accept:
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
The righteousness of man is always sullied by sin. God does not accept righteousness that is mingled with sin. The idea that "I am mostly upright, I just sin daily and ask forgiveness," is an acceptable form of righteousness is wrong. Christ's righteousness was pure and undefiled. If we are to have His righteousness then we have to become pure and undefiled as well. Otherwise our righteousness is not his, it is ours. Jesus forgives the sins of our past, and wipes away those spots, but if we do not leave our sins in the past then we have not put on the righteousness of Christ, but are still following after our own form of righteousness and continually soiling our righteousness.
How do these tares appear in our world ,by magic or by the womb?
That is a false choice. By the spirit, and by sin, Shepherd's Chapel denies the true baptism of the Holy Ghost and, as such, is void of the spirit, so they look at things that are not carnal as being "Magical." How did Jesus turn the water to wine? With red dye? Or by magic? In the parable of the sower, how does the son of man sow the word of God? By having sex with people??? To be carnally minded is death.
You would negate the importance of the prophets in these end times and deny that we should study and know them and watch the signs of the times.
This is high comedy. No, I actually study the prophets, teach them, memorize them, sing them, and I know the signs, and understand them. The problem with these false doctrines is that people spend time looking at people's "pedigrees" and reading nonsense like the excerpt from the beginning of this exchange and never learn the true signs of the end of the world. I know for a fact that Dr. Murray does not teach them, he is in fact blind to them. There is no sign "Watch them Kenites! When they start acting up! Well, then...wink, wink, nod, nod, and a word to the wise is sufficient" Pardon me while I vomit.
Would you be a partaker with them and kill them spiritually by denying what they died for?What are you saying? That they died trying to tell us who the Kenites really were? And that by denying the Kenites exist (as such) I am partaking in the blood of the prophets. What perverseness of men. I hate this doctrine, I hate it with a perfect hatred, this is exactly why I want to speak out against Dr. Murray, what perverseness of men!
Can you vouch that that high priests credentials where valid.
Oh, Man! Why does it matter???? God wanted Jesus to be crucified. Don't you know that even if he was the son of a Chinese goatherder that God had placed him in his place so that he could cause the death of Christ? What is the point???? Aaron had the best "credentials" ever but he built the golden calf? What is the point?? These kinds of remarks are just bizarre.
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
That has to mean the Jews because his own sheep did receive him, from among the Jews, but those who rejected Christ including all the Pharisees and Priests were Jews, not Demonseed, Just plain old Jews of the tribes of Israel that is the way Jesus treated them.
P.S. Could you tell me what the Gospel is?The Gospel is the good news, and this is the best summary of that news that I know of:
(Peter speaking) Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
That is the Good News. All that was done, in order to turn us from our iniquities.
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