From: Stringini <Paul Stringini>
Subject: Re: Food
To: "xxxxx xxxxxxx"
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:27 PM

This does not rest on a single scripture but on many, and I have not even brought out the best yet...

Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. I agree with Christ. Things going in will not defile a man. Make him sick, many things will do that. kill him, many things will do that too. So obviously Christ was speaking spiritual truth.
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.  Here Christ explains what defile means. Has nothing to do with food, nutrition, or health. He's teaching that defamation is of the heart (mind or soul), flesh is flesh, but spirit is spirit. 

But according to your interpretation, a portion of "unclean meat" (no matter how small?) can defile.  If not defile, then what?  That is the whole point about defiling.  You never even touched that point. You are what you eat. That adage is probably as old as dirt. No a portion of unclean meat probably does very little if any harm to the body depending on how unclean it is, but over generations it is very harmful

 

As usual, you cherry-pick the single point that is weakest in all my argument (even though it is stronger than your strongest point) and let your whole reply rest on it.   There is no such thing as a health law.  There is no such thing as poisonous food.  The vision Peter saw inplied not only that gentiles were no longer "unclean" but that all meats were now to be considered clean.  As CHRIST himself taught in Mark 7. Why is it OK for you to imply something, but not me? Peter didn't mention it. Can you document where any of the disciples ate any of the unclean foods? God detested swine. Christ even sent evil spirits into their fless, and cast them into the sea. So much meat, why didn't he feed the poor with this meat that could be purged thru the draught?

 

 

It is interesting to note, that at one time it was absolutely forbidden to eat things sacrificed to idols, but never is reference made to clean and unclean beasts.

 Why would reference be needed when it was all throughout the word of God from the begining even before the law of Moses? Besides sacrifice to idols brings a spiritual aspect to analogy.

You need to be taught again the lesson of Acts 15. It deals with the first time the question was asked, "How Much of the Law of Moses Do the Gentiles have to Follow?" You need to absorb the point of this chapter, you obviously have not, not yet.

 

ACTS 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

 

Circumcision was a "perpetual covenant" and also has health benefits (a reduced risk of cancer of the penis).  But you are not extolling the benefits of circumcision, even though it also pre-dates Moses.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

 

Not only to be circumcised, but also to keep the whole Law (because you cannot keep half).  And when you declare that certain meats are forbidden to Christians you are of the same school. Not forbiden, simply unclean whether you be Christian or athiest. Likewise, people who smoke, whether Christian or not, the toxins going in do not defile them as Christ taught, but their lungs sure do pay a price.

 

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Yes, why would they do that. Its better there hearts be save by the grace and redemption of Christ, then to get into matters of the fleshly eating customs that have no impact on their souls that may confuse and fustrate them, or be a hinderance to the faith. I would do the same thing today.

 

The Law is a yoke and has nothing to do with Christian morality.  You want to deny that you are following legalism but that is just denying the truth for the sake of a lie.  If it was not for the law you would not know what was clean and what was not.  The account in Genesis dooes not say how Noah determined which was which. (Except perhaps that God sent larger numbers of these)  You are seeking to live by the law. I would say that common sense would argue that they already knew what was unclean. Actually I make no attempt to live by any law except that which is written the the heart, and when I do take in something unclean I don't sweat it. Sometime I go to gatherings where most of the food contains things I normally wouldn't choose to eat, but its all there is. The same with excitotoxins they put into most foods today to stimulate the nerves and enhance the taste, I also try to avoid it the best I can as well. But its in some things, and I feel like if I keep the toxins lower by being conciensous I will be heathier than I would be if I didn't.

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

Notice, they make no mention of "unclean beasts" This is important because the letter is to uncircumcised, non-Jewish, Gentiles who were not accustomed to following the law of Moses.  Pork would have formed a normal part of their diet and this would be prime time to tell them that they should not eat and beast that did not "chew the cud and part the hof" and all the rest that Moses taught. Once again, these things of the flesh have no impact on the matters of the heart (which is what Christ taught truely difile a man). It simply wasn't important. Still, it is my opinion that a man would be wise not to eat unclean things. Unclean animals eat scavengers, lick their paws, grow without a seed in itself, and even though cooking at the right temperatures reduces the bacteria, trichinella, and other parasites, there are some that remain at times. We do get what we call food poisoning sometimes if we get too much at once

 

This is where you case totally falls apart.  There is no reason for gentiles to be brought under the bondage of dietary commandments. It is tempting GOD. Non whatsoever, except they could be healthier in the flesh.

 

Not only that, this letter represents a comprimise.  Paul later rejected the comprimise (as I do) and plainly taught that it was perfectly fine to eat meat sacrificed to an idol but only to the extent that it does not make your brother stumble.  The pork laws never even really come up in the NT because it had gone far beyond that, it was a presumed point.  First of all, the Lord himself had cleansed all meat in Mark 7.  It was a presumption for the rest of the New Testament and the rest of history.  This nonsense is a product of modern novelty.  It does not arise from the teachings of the Apostles or of the Lord, but it instead arises as a DIRECT CONTRADICTION to those teachings (see ACTS 15!). I stated in a prior transcript that I agree with Paul. He was absolutely right of coarse, an idol is nothing to the believer, so anything sacrificed to an idol means nothing, just like the ham sacrificed to easter. It means nothing, and if you have no concern with eating ham, dig in.

 

You sit on your high-horse with your nosed turned up at pork and mushrooms, as you like.  But you do not please God in so doing.  You tempt God.  You tempt him because you diminish the righteousness which he has declared by your declaring a greater righteousness to be attained in meat and in drink.  Deny it but it is true, that is what you do..No, I dont obstain from the unclean foods to please God. I please God by believing in the gift of salvation he provided to me, and refraining from any willful sin. No I avoid the unclean food, toxins, and otherthings I believe harm my health. I know my flesh won't live forever, in fact usually only 70 years or so, but I would like to be healthy until I die. Wouldn't you? If you would, instead of long battles with chronic issues and suffering, you should do what you think is healthy.

 "Which (tabernacle) stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."

There are no meat ordinances in Christianity.  The time of reformation came long ago, in Christ.  You ought to know this but you have not learned anything from your teachers except poisonous doctrines of devils and lies.  You ought to listen to my bible studies. I will listen to you bible studies. I appreciate your passion and searching of the scriptures. The difference between us is that I decern between the flesh, and the spirit man, between the flesh law, and the spirit law written in the heart by the present of the Holy Spirit, between the flesh which is only made of the things from the earth and will return to the earth, and the spirit which is from heaven and will return there for reward of everlasting life, or destuction.