The Definition of Rapture is Joy...I am against what you said about The Shepherd's Chapel and Dr. Arnold Murray

----- Original Message -----

From: Name and Address Withheld

To: reborn@oraclesofgod.org (Paul Stringini)

Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:01 AM

Subject: RAPTURE

The definition of rapture is Joy,my greatgrandmother from the 1800`s used "oh rapture "as an expresion like how groovy in the 60`s and thats awesome in the now days.

Rapture being a state of mind,had to have been interperted of that which was spoken of Joel,the spirit being poured out in the end times.

As far as the tribulations ,in Revelations it says these are those who came (thru) the tribulations.

If your brassless in the name of Jesus you are looking for a bail out in the sky,stand firm and I am sure that you wont kick another preacher to sell your own books and tapes.

And we will all come thru the tribulations like shadrak meshak and abednigo.

Those absent from the body are present with the lord.We do God no good in the grave.

~Peace xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx~

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:16 PM

Subject: Re: RAPTURE

It is easy for me to see that you have written me without much of an idea of what I believe or what I do. I don't believe or teach the Rapture doctrine for one.

Regarding the definition of words: When I was little, when I would say to my older sister, "You're a jerk," she would say, "A Jerk is a tug, a tug is a boat, a boat floats on water, water is nature, nature is beautiful, so thanks for the compliment." Of course that completely ignores the way the word was being USED by me. Usage determines meaning. Archaic definitions only apply when the word is being used in the old way. So "rapture," as it is used by people today, in the sense of, "I'll fly away, old Glory," does not ever mean "joy" it means "The Rapture Doctrine." Even when you use it as an exclamation, the root meaning is TRANSPORT, it means "CARRIED AWAY (emotionally)" but the necessary part is "carried away" not the emotional aspect. This is a silly argument to make against the rapture I suggest you stick to the scriptures.

"Rapture being a state of mind, had to have been interpreted of that which was spoken of Joel, the spirit being poured out in the end times."

No, I do not see any reason why Joel's prophecy should include any idea of "rapturous joy." There is no rapture (in the sense you greatgrandmother used it)in Joel. Even if you consider the idea in terms of "Rapture, as a transported or altered state of consciouness." It is awkward to use the word "rapture" in a biblical context because the meaning is already loaded from the false prophets' use of the word to mean "the great flying away."

"As far as the tribulations ,in Revelations it says these are those who came (thru) the tribulations."

I don't disagree but I will add that Dr. Murray is decieving people about the tribulation he is not preparing people mentally to be ready to suffer: Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; If you are not willing to suffer for Christ, then you are not worthy of Christ.

"If your brassless in the name of Jesus you are looking for a bail out in the sky,stand firm and I am sure that you wont kick another preacher to sell your own books and tapes."

Unlike Dr. Murray, I don't sell anything. Anything. And even though I do not look for any "bailout in the sky" I will kick him even when he is dead. So you are wrong on several counts.

"And we will all come thru the tribulations like shadrak meshak and abednigo."

More like Jesus Christ, because they will kill us and we will rise.

"Those absent from the body are present with the lord."

Not true. That is a perversion of the scripture. To be absent from the body is to be present with the lord, but that does not mean that to die is to be absent from the body.

2Cor5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
What this actually says is that we who are in the body would RATHER be present with the Lord (and absent from the body). What it does not say is that to be dead is to be absent from the body. 2Cor5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.."

This is not a description of death but of dissolution, death is not bodily dissolution. (See My Free Audio Study on II Corinthians)

Acts2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. David was not "dissolved" death is not dissolution, the earthly tabernacle persists after death and so do we with it.

Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him (Christ) up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
David saw corruption, he still is waiting to be clothed with his tabernacle from above. Dr. Murray teaches that the resurrection is already come and that is a lie.
2Cor5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"We do God no good in the grave."

Nonsense. Actually, we do him no good in heaven. Because Jesus said that "all that are in the graves shall hear his voice," and, if what you say is true, then no one will hear him because they are "absent from the body" and he is a liar.

If we are in our graves we fulfill his word.

The doctrine that people who die are in heaven is not true and is probably heathen in origin.

Regards,

Paul Stringini

----- Original Message -----

From:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:55 PM

Subject: Re: RAPTURE

Don`t forget the silver cord in Eccleastes.

If you were standing on an asteroid and looked into the night sky you would see a little bluish greenish glitter and say oh look earth is in the heavens in the milkey way galixey,in this universe.So earth is in heaven and we are on earth and in heaven.I am a little sister,na,na,na,na,na! I am not argueing with you.We are all doing the best we can.It all boils down to LOVE.There are many transliterations of the Bible and the word Rapture isn`t in all.We read "caught up"that was before the Bible was in International versions.Thee
,tho,and Easter instead of Passover.If you would kick a child of God when they are dead,well I don`t know,would you like me to say that about your little sister,no.That sounds wierd,to kick someone when they are dead.Are you for God or against.Satan wasn`t cursed over Moses body.If you would kick a dead body,you can`t sell me Jesus.I am not sure you have counted the cost of following Christ.After 14 years I am walking out of my wheelchair.I sat for fourteen years in that suffering.Then they took an x-ray and said it isn`t nerve damage it is a broken femer after three operations I am walking as of september 1st 2009.

I was born on 106 exchange street ,would you like to exchange places with me as fast as you think I am against you.I am against what you said about Dr.Murry who belives he is doing rightouness for Jesus.You singing song about flying away,watch out for those songs they arn`t always biblicalle correct.This generation with all the movies left behind and all the stupid and stupid is a word in Proverbs 12:1 preachers saying we are flying away,are we comeing back because the meek inherit the earth.Jesus said in the lords prayer,Thy kingdom come,not we go to thy kingdom.~Peace Glenna~

p.s.Sounds like you ,Clint Eastwood and I have one thing in common,make my day and talk about Jesus,you never know what scripture we will wield. (this is actually a nice comment, and I think she is a nice lady)

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Stringini

To:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:49 AM

Subject: Re: RAPTURE

You seem like a nice person, xxxxxx, but you plainly do not understand me. I sing songs word for word from the bible. I don't sing songs about "I'll Fly Away," I hate that song. I hate that song so much that I changed the words and made a new song out of it (but you can't get this song on my site, because on my website I only sing about the bible, verse by verse direct from the bible songs) .

Some Glad Morning When This Life Is O'er,
I'll Lie And Wait
In A Hole Dug Deep Within The Ground,
I'll Lie And Wait

I'll Lie And Wait Oh Glory,
I'll Lie And Wait
Some Sweet Day Resurrection By And By,
I'll Lie And Wait

When The Shadows Of This Life Have Grown,
I'll Lie And Wait
Like A Bird That Has Fallen To The Ground,
I'll Lie And Wait

Just A Few More Weary Days And Then,
I'll Lie And Wait
For That Body That Shall Never Die,
I'll Lie And Wait

There is no flying away, Jesus Christ is returning to earth he will transform the living and raise the dead, but none of us are going to heaven, heaven is coming here.

And also, there is a lot more to my website than Dr. Murray, I write good songs, word for word from the bible, chapter by chapter, verse by verse songs. http://oraclesofgod.org look around a bit.

"Don`t forget the silver cord in Ecclesiastes."

What that passage says is that "the spirit returns to God that gave it" but that is not the person. The soul does not return to God because the soul does not come from God. The soul is created when the spirit enters the body. "And God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man BECAME a living soul."

All we have to do is look to Jesus to undestand this. When he died, he "gave up the ghost, which is to say, the spirit. But when he was buried, his SOUL went into the ground, and he, personally, was not in heaven, but in the ground.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Jesus soul went into the ground, into "hell, which is to say, the grave.

The person of David is dead and buried, Peter just made that very clear, not just his body, but the person. This would have been a perfect time to say, "David's body is in the ground, but David is in Heaven. " but he did not because that is not the doctrine of the Apostles of Jesus Christ. There is only one man in heaven, jesus Christ. Everything else you have been mislead in is a lie.

It does all boil down to love, God's love and the love of the truth, but you cannot truly love good unless you absolutely hate evil.

When I said I would kick Dr. Murray after he was dead, you should have known I was speaking figuratively, you were the one who said I "kicked a minister" I was just continuing the analogy, what I meant is that I will continue to attack Dr. Murray's ministry even after he is long dead, because they will certainly try to continue it.