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Loving Your Enemies, Shepherd's Chapel Style:
An Example of the Arrogance and Haughtiness that the teachings of Pastor Arnold Murray and The Shepherd's Chapel Inspire
"I Have A Problem With An Idiot Like You Out There Trashing One Of the Best Teachers ...What's The Matter, Did Him Get His Feelings Hurt By The Big, Bad Pastor?... I Have A Higher Education In Psychology, Sociology And Other Behavioral Studies ...I Believe You Are Bipolar With Schizophrenic Tendencies ...You Suffer From Illusions of Grandeur! ...You Weirdo!"
----- Original Message -----From: Name And Address WithheldTo: email@example.com (Paul Stringini)Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:20 PMSubject: Pastor Murray
This email is being sent after I came across your site. You are a prime example of extremism that I do not like. You come across as a crazed lunatic. I feel in your attempt to discredit my teacher, you have more than discredited yourself and your church. Pastor refuses to get involved in such slanderous activity, which is why I believe in him as a teacher of The True Word. In your attempts to discredit him, you have put yourself at the top of the list of the majority, which are the ones who refuse to listen to the truth. That is Biblical, ya know?I, also, have studied with Pastor for many years. In that time, I have suffered severe trauma. The Truth I have learned through his teachings is the one and only thing that has kept me going. If I would have listened to people like you, I would have committed suicide! You have no substance in what you teach. You teach the same smack the other false teachers are teaching, which is the majority, like I stated. I would rather be in this small group of true believers than become involved with the many who are so very wrong. You will all learn that soon enough.We are all given a choice at this time. You were given truth, but you have rejected it. How much more for which you will have to answer when that Day comes. I pray you come back to the truth now. If not, you will have an opportunity according to HIS GRACE during His time of teaching. It will be a sad state of affairs when your heart fails you when you realize that you were so close and gave it all away for the ways of this world.We pray for your return to truth in Jesus' Name.
My First Response:edits in maroon and in ( ), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----To:Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:04 PMSubject: Re: Pastor MurrayHi, Thanks for writing.You are a prime example of extremism that I do not like.But I love extremism. I want to be extreme for Jesus and for his doctrine. Hot and Cold are extremes, if you are not extreme, then you are lukewarm and will be rejected.You come across as a crazed lunatic.I have been called lots of things, but not a crazy lunatic. Do lunatics write logical and coherent commentaries on false doctrine? They said Christ had "a devil" and was "mad," so, I guess I'd have to take that as a compliment. When the enemies of the gospel call me crazy, it must be because I'm becoming more and more like Christ. Thanks.I feel in your attempt to discredit my teacher, you have more than discredited yourself and your church. Pastor refuses to get involved in such slanderous activity, which is why I believe in him as a teacher of The True Word.Dr. Murray says that in order to shield himself from criticism. He never criticizes anyone by name so that he can make the very act of criticizing him into a sin, whether the criticism is valid or not. (He actually did criticize someone, by name, one time, that I know of; do you remember the time he read that article "Sometimes it Pays to Obfuscate"?) This is just another one of his false doctrines.Since when is "refusal to name false teachers" the criteria for judging a teacher of the true word? A true teacher of the word never criticizes other teachers? What a lie! Jesus Christ appointed Paul, an Apostle, someone who I know is surely a true teacher of God's word, and the apostle Paul definitely calls out people, by name, who were erring concerning the truth. He called them out by name in order to warn people, so they would know who the wolves in sheep's clothing are.2Ti 15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. (Dr. Murray is also GUILTY of this)
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
It is not a sin to name an enemy of the Gospel. I don't care what Doctor Murray does, if he wants to play that way, then fine, but it is his doctrine, not Christ's. The Apostles and the Prophets and all the scriptures name the enemies, so do I.Dr. Murray is also guilty of teaching that the resurrection is past (just as Hymenaeus and Philetus), he teaches that the dead are already in "spirit-bodies" and have already ascended into the heavens with God. Just watch the way he teaches 1 Thessalonians 4 or 1 Corinthians 15, "They are already with him." That is a perversion of the doctrine of Christ Himself, the word says that the dead are in their graves awaiting the resurrection of the dead.John5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
If Dr. Murray's doctrines are true the what Jesus says is false, the dead will never hear his voice and come forth, because they are already with him. (if you read my site you can learn more about this)In your attempts to discredit him, you have put yourself at the top of the list of the majority, which are the ones who refuse to listen to the truth. That is Biblical, ya know?By that logic I could say that you belong to the majority, because you do not agree with me in all my doctrines, and that proves that you are not of God. I have plenty to separate me from the majority, believe me, I do not belong to a church of tens of thousands (or more) like you do. My doctrine is narrower than anything out there, I can't listen to Christian radio without getting indignant.I, also, have studied with Pastor for many years. In that time, I have suffered severe trauma. The Truth I have learned through his teachings is the one and only thing that has kept me going.People say that about all kinds of religions and faiths, but that is not the measure of truth.If I would have listened to people like you, I would have committed suicide!No you wouldn't. If you killed yourself, all that would prove is that you have not listened to me. I have not come to destroy your faith, but to fulfill it.You have no substance in what you teach. You teach the same smack the other false teachers are teaching, which is the majority, like I stated.No, you are obviously ignorant of what I teach. Are you always so quick to speak without knowledge? Obviously, the only portion of what I teach that you were even interested in was the portion which had to do with your teacher, you didn't even bother to look for what I really teach, if you did you would see that my beliefs set me at odds with virtually every Christian Church or religion that you know. All you looked at was my page, which turns people from Dr. Murray every day, by the way. I get almost as many thank you notes as I do letters from angry chapel worshippers.I would rather be in this small group of true believers than become involved with the many who are so very wrong. You will all learn that soon enough.You are not in a small group, you are in a Mega-Church, following another one of Satan's TV teachers, all teachers on TV and Radio are of Satan, he is their Prince, they have the power of the air. You are part of the Majority following these TV and Radio preachers. I reject them ALL, now tell me who is in the small group. Everyone who looks to them will be destroyed. They are there for a snare and a stumblingblock to our nation.We are all given a choice at this time. You were given truth, but you have rejected it.Wrong, I accepted it, I taught it, I spread it, I supported it financially, until I realized (completely independently) that it was falsehood. I still believe some of the same things you do (I reject the rapture doctrine, and eternal torture) But I rejected the doctrines that say that the Jews are the literal flesh and blood descendants of Satan, I reject the fairy tale that predestination come from the fact that the "elect" stood against Satan in the world that was, and such like, I reject all of Dr. Murray's perversions which exalt themselves above the knowledge of God.How much more for which you will have to answer when that Day comes. I pray you come back to the truth now.I thank you for your kind intentions, bless you, but I can never go back, if I am mislead, then I am mislead of God, it would be easier for me to become a sodomite than to go back to Dr. Murray's teachings. I have such a deep hatred and revulsion for his doctrines. He is not a good teacher of the word, he is a servant of Satan. I have not followed a man in rejecting Dr. Murray, I have followed the dictates of my own conscience.If not, you will have an opportunity according to HIS GRACE during His time of teaching.Sorry, but no, it is given unto man to die once and after that the judgment, the Millennium that Dr. Murray envisions is a lie and will never be. That idea is not according to the grace of God. You will not see your "unsaved" dead relatives there. Because, "The rest of the dead lived not again till the thousand years were finished." The millennium that you believe in does not exist. Nor ever will.It will be a sad state of affairs when your heart fails you when you realize that you were so close and gave it all away for the ways of this world.What ways of this world? I was a lot more worldly as a student of Dr. Murray. (of course, I was younger then too) Do you think I left Murray and went over to the camp of the "normal" "mainstream" Christians? No, that is not right. I reject them and I reject Murray as well. I reject them all.We pray for your return to truth in Jesus' Name.That truth is not Jesus' name. I would sooner offer my five sons to Molech.Sincerely,Paul
Emailer's First Reply:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:33 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
See what I mean by 'crazed lunatic' because your lengthy, sarcastic answer simply reinforces my perception of you. You twist The Scriptures to deceive just like your father.Pastor always teaches that we are to leave the tares alone. I can see through all of that hot air. You are using opposition to Pastor's teachings to springboard your own church.Whatever, dude.
My Second Response: edits in maroon and in ( ), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----To:Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:44 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
Springboard? You have to be kidding. Do you even know what I do, and what my ministry is? I'm not a pastor. As far as this Shepherd's Chapel thing, people write me and I answer them, that is all I'm doing with this. Do you really think I'm that effective?You twist The Scriptures to deceive just like your father.Look again:Scripture: "The rest of the dead lived not AGAIN 'til the thousand years were finished" Rev 20Dr. Murray's Twist: All the dead are going to live AGAIN in the millennium, just not spiritually. Of course never mind that they did not have spiritual life before either, so that they live not AGAIN. Why does AGAIN mean so much in Genesis but so little in Revelation?Scripture: And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Ge 3:20Dr. Murray's Twist: Eve is not the mother of all living, she is just the mother of white folks.If Dr. Murray himself is not enough for you to change your mind, then why should I even bother with you? Most of the people I am helping are very new to the chapel, the only long term students who write nice things are the ex-students who tell me to keep it up. But there is nothing for them to join. I'm not starting a church from the shattered remnants of his ministry, and you can bet there will be plenty of those, he will not live to see the end.Anyway, thanks for contributing,Paul
Emailer's Second Reply:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:25 AMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
Are you effective? I will not argue with someone by hurling different scriptures back and forth. I have a higher education in psychology, sociology and other behavioral studies. I am not pointing your obvious faults out by Pastor's teachings only.I think it is your approach to get your name out there by being a controversial critic of a brilliant teacher; still a human being, but a great teacher nonetheless. You admit to having studied with him having learned a lot from him by your own admissions. Then, there you are knocking him for something he believes with all he has. Where is the respect he is owed for all of the things he gets right?I believe Biblical principals more than anything. I have learned that man feels the need to label everything, but God simply teaches common sense. Pastor has an approach that is full heartedly shared with the goodness in a world that is not and cannot be perfect, which includes Pastor.The Biblical principal of heritage that is a constant underlying aspect in God's Word, (Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated) is a character that is necessary. Your teaching disrespects part of your heritage. That is the observation I experienced when I was looking online about my teachers. That is a bad first impression. That is all I am pointing out. You have a negative trying to appear positive. It just doesn't work like that.Respectfully
My Third Response: edits in maroon and in ( ), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----To:Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:41 PMSubject: Re: Pastor MurrayAre you effective?In persuading people who have a strongly held opposite opinion than me? I don't think so, no, I'm not very effective at that. But, think about it, really, even Jesus was not effective at that, was he? But that is not my goal, my goal is to persuade people who have not yet formed an opinion, and you can bet I'm very effective at that. Here is a portion of an e-mail I received:----- Original Message -----From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXSent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:42 AMSubject: You saved me from making a huge mistake.
When you said that you have a large amount of tapes and teachings of Arnold Murray, my attention was instantly had. I haven't yet, but was intending on taping shows, getting as much as I could of this man's teachings. This very morning I asked my 13-year-old daughter if she would like to begin reading along with the Shepherd’s Chapel, and me her response was YES. Luckily, for her I decided to check out the Internet first to get a bit more information.
Then to my surprise and I will admit a little sadness, I found your website regarding Arnold Murray. I have to take a minute to Thank God for leading me in this direction and be very grateful that although I was getting very intrigued with Mr. Murray's teachings I have not jumped in with both feet yet.Isn't that wonderful? See, I am effective. In fact, that is how most people who say they have "just started listening to Dr. Murray" usually address me.I will not argue with someone by hurling different scriptures back and forth.The word of God is the sword, you can wield all the psycho-babble you like, but if you will not take up the sword for Christ you are not worthy of him. You must fear debating the scriptures with me, when I look at the attempts of others, I can see why.I have a higher education in psychology, sociology and other behavioral studies.Now I'm really scared. How is it that you got so much education, but you cannot even read the simple truth declared in the scriptures? A degree is no substitute for talent.I am not pointing your obvious faults out by Pastor's teachings only.So you are pointing out my faults based on psychology sociology and behavioral studies? Then it is a very small thing indeed for me to be judged of you! My faults could not be obvious to you, unless you have read my biography; as for my dissection of Dr. Murray's perversions, they are faultless.I think it is your approach to get your name out there by being a controversial critic of a brilliant teacher;Uh, you have that backwards, I'm the brilliant critic of a controversial teacher. I'm not controversial, well, at least, my criticism of Dr. Murray is not controversial, but Dr. Murray, now he is controversial! I mean, anyone who says that all the Jews are the sons of Satan is definitely controversial. (and I have the audio to prove it)I'm a musician, I set entire chapters and books of the bible to song, if you examine the rest of my site you will find that it is so. How in the world is criticizing Dr. Murray going to advance my musical ministry?? My music ministry did much better when I used to be a faithful follower of Dr. Murray.You know, part of psychology, sociology and such studies is gathering as much data about a subject before you leap to a conclusion, you may have obtained a degree but you get an "F" from me for your ability to gather data concerning the subject of your psychological analysis.a brilliant teacher; still a human being, but a great teacher nonetheless.Is this the psychological way to induce vomiting? Your worship of Dr. Murray is so unseemly it borders on psychological pornography.You admit to having studied with him having learned a lot from him by your own admissions.One could also learn a lot from Charles Manson, by doing a psychological study of him, or from Satan, the Apostle Paul learned much from Gamaliel, but my real teacher was always God and my loyalty is only in Him.Then, there you are knocking him for something he believes with all he has.I do not care how sincerely some one believes something, if it is a lie then it is not of God and neither is that teacher. The Apostles and Christ taught that a little leaven leavens the whole. A little false doctrine makes the whole teaching corrupt; even the good in it is used to hide the evil so the whole is evil.When I listen to Dr. Murray all I hear now is 100% perverseness, the whole is leavened, when I was ignorant and young I learned much, but it took 10 years to unlearn the leaven of three years of instruction.Where is the respect he is owed for all of the things he gets right?Anyone can get something half-right, when it comes to the word of God, that is worthy of no respect at all. A man of God must provide sound doctrine, unleavened. Half-truths are no truths at all.I believe Biblical principals more than anything.No, you don't. The fact that you disagree with me proves it. Do you believe in the biblical principle of leaven?I have learned that man feels the need to label everything, but God simply teaches common sense.Is that what God does? Another Murrayism. I don't see it. I have never read anywhere in the bible about common sense. God teaches righteousness and godliness and holiness, but common sense?Once again, your mind has been totally corrupted form the simplicity that is in Christ. You have it totally backwards. As far as I can tell God likes to label things, like "sin" "iniquity" "acceptable" "unacceptable" Common sense is basically the wisdom of man. Common sense is to be put away from you.Deut 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes. (common sense)Pastor has an approach that is full heartedly shared with the goodness in a world that is not and cannot be perfect, which includes Pastor.In all the places in scripture where the word perfect is used, I do not know of any saying that we cannot obtain it. In fact, if you cannot be perfect then you cannot be Christ's either.Col1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:Matt5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.Lu6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2Cor13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.1Cor2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men (common sense), but in the power of God. 6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world (common sense), nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:Common sense is not "hidden" wisdom, it is "common" and therefore belongs to man.Ps 101:6 Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.Ps138:8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.Pr4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brotherWe have to be made perfect. That is the point of being a Christian, to become perfect, to become like Christ.The Biblical principal of heritage that is a constant underlying aspect in God's Word, (Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated) is a character that is necessary.Heritage is "crap." That is what the apostle Paul said anyway.Phil3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,Paul despised his heritage enough to change his name. The point is that heritage takes a back seat to truth.Jacob have I loved Esau have I hated is part of the principle of predestination. Esau despised his birthright, which is a lot different than what you are suggesting, because it was not just any old birthright. It was a great promise.God created certain people for destruction and evil, Dr. Murray misteaches predestination, you can read all about it on my website.Pr16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.Your teaching disrespects part of your heritage. That is the observation I experienced when I was looking online about my teachers.Dr. Murray? He is not my birthright.That is a bad first impression. That is all I am pointing out.Maybe for someone like you, but not everyone shares your opinion, not everyone has wasted so much of their time getting degrees in psychology, sociology and behavioral studies.You have a negative trying to appear positive. It just doesn't work like that.No, it does work that way, the law is a perfect example, the law is all negative: thou shalt not, thou shalt not, thou shalt not, touch not, taste not, handle not, and it leads only to death. Yet the apostle Paul said the law was just and holy and perfect and good. So you are wrong.You ought to stop relying on your corrupt common sense and your worthless education and get your wisdom from the source of true wisdom, the word of God.SincerelyPaul
Emailer's Third Reply:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:36 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
My degrees keep me well founded in the real world, buddy. If you are such a genius when it comes to The Scriptures, why don't you climb all over the teachers out there who are robbing little old people or something or go after that Rev. Wright fella. My spiritual beliefs are not up for debate, but an idiot like you out there trashing one of the best teachers rather than the snakes out there is what I have a problem with when it comes to you.
My Fourth Response: edits in maroon and in ( ), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----To:Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:23 PMSubject: Re: Pastor MurrayMy degrees keep me well founded in the real world, buddy.I seriously question that, what is real is the word of God, this world is full of deception lies and such. Would it not be better to say that Christ keeps one well founded in righteousness?But the scriptures are true, out of your mouth is revealed the abundance of your heart, the world is your foundation, your education keeps you there.If you are such a genius when it comes to The Scriptures, why don't you climb all over the teachers out there who are robbing little old people or something or go after that Rev. Wright fella.Because I do not no them, the holy ghost appointed me to Dr. Murray, that is my heritage.My spiritual beliefs are not up for debate,
For someone who does not believe that anyone can "know it all" to have their beliefs so settled is amazing. On one hand you say that no one can be perfect or "know it all" and on the other hand you behave as if you have already attained perfection in your beliefs.but an idiot like you out there trashing one of the best teachers rather than the snakes out there is what I have a problem with when it comes to you.
Dr. Murray is not a great teacher, all the other awful teachers have lowered your expectations.
Emailer's Fourth Reply:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:55 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
In addition, there is not one person on this earth who knows it all. Your extremist activity is a window to just how arrogant you are. You believe that you know it all. One of the other critics of Pastor said, 'It seems his approach is lacking the humility and grace of the Holy Spirit.' That is what I see in your activity that you have made so public. I am of the public, and I see you as a crazed, extremist who has lost his footing by allowing pride to swell you up into really believing that you are perfect. You leave no room for self criticism. That is what you need to remain humble before God, so you better go find it.
My Fifth Response: edits in maroon and in ( ), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----To:Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:40 PMSubject: Re: Pastor MurrayIn addition, there is not one person on this earth who knows it all.I agree, it is not possible to know everything. But it is imperitive to eliminate all that is not true from what we believe. I do not say that I know everything, I say that the things which I affirm are true, pure, sound; unleavened and having no falsehood mingled in.Your extremist activity is a window to just how arrogant you are.You have to be kidding me. You are ruining the word extremeist. Extremist is bombing "Big Momma" or attacking the Shepherd's Chapel website. All I'm doing is talking, and I'm not inciting anyone either. Do I scare you or something?You believe that you know it all.Is slander all you have left to throw at me? You are a liar.One of the other critics of Pastor said, 'It seems his approach is lacking the humility and grace of the Holy Spirit.'I don't care what the other critics have said, in case you have not noticed I have been very repectful of Dr. Murray. I have never questioned his sincerity, neither have I directly attacked his character, except in the way in which my criticism of his doctrines and methods reflect on his character, and I make no apology for that.That is what I see in your activity that you have made so public. I am of the public, and I see you as a crazed, extremist who has lost his footing by allowing pride to swell you up into really believing that you are perfect.You are not of the public, you are a very interested party, you are a student of Dr. Murray, "the public" probably is not very interested in this subject. But those with less bias than you or I have thanked me and said that I am providing a valuable service. I have even appeared in a newspaper article, just google Paul Stringini. (which I will eventually comment on.)You leave no room for self criticism.No, that is what you do. You have said that your beliefs are not up for debate, well mine are. You can talk, but I have the proof, I put my belifs up to scrutiny, not just on my website, but all the time. Out of your own mouth you have declared that you are the one whose beliefs are not to be debated.That is what you need to remain humble before God, so you better go find it.
I'm glad that you see how humble I am before God, and I will remain humble before God, because I already do the things which you have neglected, you are the one who ought to give heed
Emailer's Fifth Reply:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:47 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
I do not live my life by disassociating from the world, rather associating with The Living God. I live in a free country, and we are allowed to speak our mind about religion. That gives a lot of diversity. I am not reputing what you believe. I am focusing on your public approach of picking out one person and ready to go to battle with anyone or anything. What's the matter, did him get his feelings hurt by the big, bad pastor?
My Sixth Response: edits in maroon and in ( ), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----To:Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:26 PMSubject: Re: Pastor MurrayI do not live my life by disassociating from the world,Fine but I did not say that. But, even so, I expect you do not embrace the world or have friendship with it. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. I know Dr. Murray downplays these things but the scriptures stand. Obviously we have to live in the world, yet not altogether as friends with it.rather associating with The Living God.The two can be mutually exclusive, it is like saying, "I do not live my marriage disassociating from my mistress, rather associating with my wife." What does that sound like to you? It all depends on how you look at it your language is so vague (associating) I can't tell what you mean.I live in a free country, and we are allowed to speak our mind about religion. That gives a lot of diversity. I am not reputing what you believe.It may not be your conscious intention, I will not question your sincerity. But it is what is actually happening. Part of what I believe is what I'm doing, do by reputing what I'm doing you repute what I believe. Whatever repute means. (Repudiating? Disreputing? I get your drift though)Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 'I will not stand by while he sins against his soul any more. I realized that my silence was hatred in the eyes of the Lord. I must rebuke Dr. Murray for the sake of Love. I will not suffer him to cause others to err either.I am focusing on your public approach of picking out one person and ready to go to battle with anyone or anything. What's the matter, did him get his feelings hurt by the big, bad pastor?
Is that what you would say to God when he throws the sinners into the lake of fire? "Did him get his feeling hurt by big bad sinner?" You are mocking judgment.I do what I do because I am compelled of God to do it. The prophets of old spoke against the false prophets and had to deal with mockers like you.As if something as petty as hurt feelings would get me to do this. If that was so then I should have started doing this back on 1996 when I fell out with the teachings of Murray, or in 1998 when I started my website. But I left it alone for over a decade, because I just didn't care.Sometimes I have mixed feeling about doing this because I like Dr. Murray, he conducted my wedding, his son videotaped it for me for free, he never hurt me I had nothing but felings of affection for him, and he never changed or turned on me, I changed, Dr. Murray never hurt me. It took a long time to get to this point because I had to overcome my feelings of affection for him and my instinctive desire to defend him. I was still lending out his tapes several years after I stopped listening to them (as late as 2001)You are not the first to mock me in this way, I either get mocked like this or people say "How dare you turn on your teacher so coldly and calculatingly." None of you want to admit that I do not do this because of any feelings, it is all about doctrine.Ps 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.I would go after my other teachers If I had any, it just so happens that Dr. Murray was the only teacher I ever had.Sincerely Paul
Emailer's Sixth Reply:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:51 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
Wow, look how many songs you could have written from The Scriptures! You say yourself that you are behind.You are a high tech version of a person out of your mind standing on a street corner with a bullhorn. Your approach is highly offensive, and that is what got me to tell you what I think of you in the first place. I don't want to see your crued opinions on the PUBLIC internet anymore than I want to see someone on a corner with a bullhorn trying to get himself noticed.The Word is not just a bunch of chapters and verses in it. There are Biblical principals that should be understood and practiced. You are a radical for your beliefs, so get your whip out and turn the tables or maybe you can be in the newspaper again!I have wasted enough of my time with the likes of you.Blocked.
My Seventh Response: edits in maroon and in ( ), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----From: StringiniTo:Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:33 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
Since your email will appear on my website I will reply a final time. I do not want anyone to say that I posted a reply to them on my website without giving them a chance to read it first. Blocking me is pretty funny, and very weak, you didn't even say, "Please don't write." Does it make you feel powerful to cut off the conversation like that? You can block me again, if you write me again I won't mail you again but I will reply and the reply will appear on my website.Now, For someone who claims to follow biblical principles you are very ignorant of themYou are a high tech version of a person out of your mind standing on a street corner with a bullhorn.What does that make Dr. Murray? About 1000 x's worse. But you said it, not me.Actually, Jesus said this,Matt 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.This line about the "bullhorn" is just another of Dr. Murray's fetishes, you are certainly following him closely, but as for "biblical principles" you are a very ignorant person.Your approach is highly offensive, and that is what got me to tell you what I think of you in the first place.I know I'm offending you and other Dr. Murray fans. I just don't care. I'm not offending people who are looking for information on the Shepherd's Chapel and that is who I am trying to reach. As I said, if Dr. Murray has not personally convinced you that he is not a follower of the Bible, then I sure can't.I don't want to see your crued opinions on the PUBLIC internet anymore than I want to see someone on a corner with a bullhorn trying to get himself noticed.Has it ever occurred to you that the guy with the bullhorn wants his message heard? and not merely to be seen or "get famous"? Has it ever occurred to you that it is not easy to stand up in public, uninvited and begin speaking to this rebellious and ungodly people? It is a lot easier to sit behind your desk and have a webpage or a TV show. Whatever happened to "I live in a country with religious freedom. Is it so unseemly? or are you just a squeamish and fearful person?Do you think anyone likes the guy with the bullhorn? Do you think people line up to shake his hand, like they do for Dr. Murray? Does standing on the street corner with a bullhorn get anyone the kind of attention someone who is looking for attention wants? I don't know, but you just repeat Dr. Murray's opinions like a little Cockatiel, you have never even given it a thought."Judge not after the appearance but judge righteous judgment."The Word is not just a bunch of chapters and verses in it.Really? The word is not just a bunch of chapters and verses? Amazing! Actually, it is a bunch of chapters and verses, and there are words in there, and the words say things, thing which you do not understand. Things which Dr. Murray perverts on a daily basis.There are Biblical principals that should be understood and practiced.You are one of the most ignorant people I have encountered regarding those principles (among people who claim to know them), you are a prime example of Dr. Murray's poorly equipped disciples.You are a radical for your beliefs, so get your whip out and turn the tablesAre you actually mocking what Jesus did? I have noticed that Many of Dr. Murray's disciples hold certain things from the word in contempt, all based on Dr. Murray's personal tastes, such as street corner preaching, mushrooms, asserting that fruit actually could grant knowledge (as the word says it did), criticizing people by name, zealously worshipping God, making a spectacle of oneself for the Lord, righteousness, tongues. All his personal peeves, but held in glory in the scriptures.or maybe you can be in the newspaper again!I only told you that to demonstrate that I am not perceived by many to be "extremist." My delight in being in the paper is that by exposing myself to this IN-famy I can do something to help expose a wicked ministry.You just want everyone to shut up and let Dr. Murray have it all his way. You can't seriously have believed I would hear such nonsense.I have wasted enough of my time with the likes of you.Good, then don't even read this.Blocked.Like I said, all you have to do is ask me not to write. You don't have to resort to blocking tactics. Plus they don't work.Thanks for your contribution to my website, your contribution will help my efforts.
Emailer's Seventh Reply:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:31 AMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
Actually, cutting you off was kickin' the dust off of my feet. All you want to do is argue, and I just don't have time for that. Do what you do. We will find out in the end.You are not as knowledgable as you believe yourself to be. What is it that Christ said in His teachings that got the attention of so many? Was it making fun of people for one misspelling of a word when He was doing it more than that Himself? No. He was teaching the truth; truth you claim to know but don't. You aren't like Christ, so don't even claim that you are. You are insulting people, not just me, in trying to get their attention. Yeah, that guy with the bullhorn just wants his message to be heard, but if he knew what he was talking about, he would be ashamed of himself for acting like such a fool. Kinda like you. And, kinda like you, he would not have the capacity to recognize just how he appears to a lot of people.I believe you are bipolar with schizophrenic tendencies. I would advise anyone reading your sight to stear clear. There are many others out there who offer healthier communications, for sure. Writing to me after I told you I wanted you blocked is just more proof of your obsession of being too FN annoying. It is no wonder that woman divorced you. I bet you were impossible to live with!
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:15 AMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
Oh, and you suffer from illusions of grandeur! You obviously don't have the education to support your claims of being able to decipher what God is teaching throughout the entire Bible. But, Pastor Murray does. Age and wisdom will always overcome youth and vitality.
My Eighth Response: edits in maroon and in ( ), as in: (this is an example of an edit)
----- Original Message -----From: StringiniTo:Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:27 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
I'm not divorced. I've been married to Katie almost 14 years and only death will part us, I'm 35 and was never married previously, so right now you are the one who comes off as a little crazy. I wonder where you heard that she left me... Or is that vicious little rumor your own creation? Katie and I just had our sixth child together this year and we get closer and closer every year.Here is what I can tell you about you, mostly all you have done is attack me personally (I'm insane, I'm mentally ill, I'm doing it wrong (with no documentation to back up that preposterous clam)). You have carefully avoided reasoning with me out of the scriptures. When I bring up the scriptures, you are sure to keep the conversation far from them. That is pretty smart on your part because you would be at a complete disadvantage, because even my enemies marvel at the gifts of God in me.Also, I do all (or most all) of my talking on my PRIVATE website, unlike the majority of my critics who do thier SHOUTING on PUBLIC bulliten boards. People come looking for me so your basic premise is just a bunch of nonsense.I'm not going to torment you with the full reply to this message, you can read it on my website when it appears there (allow 1-6 weeks for delivery).
Emailer's Eighth Reply:
----- Original Message -----From:Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:58 PMSubject: Re: Pastor Murray
Well, we must have gotten you confused with some other quack who was married by Pastor and turned on him.More proof, locks only keep honest men honest. I keep telling you to go away, but you keep sending me emails. I found your site doing research on my teacher. I am a student looking for information. I don't like you or your approach and you welcomed criticism. That is all I was doing. Now, leave me alone you weirdo.
My Website Response:
I did not write this person again. Getting in the last word was obviously high on her list of priorities, but I am not going to let her have it.
I never responded directly to this charge:
Oh, and you suffer from illusions of grandeur! You obviously don't have the education to support your claims of being able to decipher what God is teaching throughout the entire Bible. But, Pastor Murray does. Age and wisdom will always overcome youth and vitality.
Interesting, Dr. Murray always claims that his credentials are "his ability to teach." Of course, on the other hand, he likes to go around calling himself "Doctor," when, in fact, no one has ever been able to verify his education. So which is it? Are his credentials his "abilities" or are they his "Dr?" When I was 19, I found him to be very impressive, the title "Doctor ' made him even more impressive, but now that I am a much more well-versed student I grade his "abilities" as poor, or very poor.
I have to confess, this makes it very hard for me to take people seriously who follow him for long periods of time, it causes me to question their intelligence. Even intelligent people can be blinded, I know, but still it is hard not to look down on these people.
I don't care whether someone has a Doctorate or not, my credentials are my abilities, not some phony-baloney self-declared Doctor title, like Dr. Murray. I dropped out of college due to my big-time drug addiction, I was going to study law and become a politician, but I never got past the first year because I spent the whole year in my dorm-room getting high.
Even so, the gifts of God are without repentance, If you want to know if I have "abilities" just read through the debates I have had with Shepherd's Chapel Students.
Here is another point about Dr. Murray, let's say he does have a degree, a doctorate. Name one institute of higher learning in this country that instructs students in the doctrines that Dr. Murray teaches. There are none. If Dr. Murray did have a doctorate from someplace, he threw all that learning out the window to follow after the teachings of the identity movement.
What that proves is that Dr. Murray's education would have been a barrier to his discovering the "real truth" ie (his identity teachings) he would have had to go against what he had learned in school to follow the teachings of Anglo-identity (Identity is where the doctrines of the serpent seed, Jews=Kenites, and Anglo=Israel come from). So this lady's point is just pointless.
Remember, most of Jesus disciples were uneducated, in fact, Jesus was uneducated, this is pointed out in the new testament.
John 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, "How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?"
Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
Education can be a barrier to discovering the truth. I don't put much stock in it, certainly not when it comes to the faith. Education can be a wonderful and useful tool, but it can also be very dangerous. Education can make foolish and unworthy people appear knowledgeable and trustworthy. That is the problem, a schooling is no substitute for the gifts of God.
Anyone reading this can see that is not what happened, she never once told me to go away, I guess she left a few hints but I really never thought of them as the end of the conversation
I never "Welcomed criticism" not like this, this is just personal abuse. I asked people to write and defend the doctrines of Dr. Murray or to tell me If I'm mischaracterizing any of it. I never asked anyone to write and tell me they don't like what I'm doing, or to abuse me personally, but they write anyway.
This kind of unreasonable nastiness is so typical of a certain class of Dr. Murray's Disciples, he attracts some very nasty people who are in love with the idea that they are "the elect" just because they believe in Dr. Murray.
You are not as knowledgable as you believe yourself to be. What is it that Christ said in His teachings that got the attention of so many? Was it making fun of people for one misspelling of a word when He was doing it more than that Himself?
She is also way too over-sensitive, she is referring to this exchange:
I was not "making fun" of her I was just unclear of what she intended by the word "repute," I think I was pretty understanding and cool about it. "I get your drift." She is just hyper-sensitive, I was not 100% sure. I did not have to mention that fact, but really I didn't mean any harm by it either.
No. He was teaching the truth; truth you claim to know but don't. You aren't like Christ, so don't even claim that you are.
Unfortunately so little of the truth that Christ taught ever got through to this poor woman.
You are insulting people, not just me, in trying to get their attention.
If I was trying to get attention I would go into the Shepherd's Chapel chat rooms and spam. Or hang out on factnet forums all day or do other things more publicly. But the fact is that this is a PRIVATE website which I own. She did not have to come here. The only people who come here are people looking for information on Dr. Murray, they are asking for it from me, and I give it to them.
Yeah, that guy with the bullhorn just wants his message to be heard, but if he knew what he was talking about, he would be ashamed of himself for acting like such a fool. Kinda like you. And, kinda like you, he would not have the capacity to recognize just how he appears to a lot of people.
I give people information they were looking for, like you. The guy with the bullhorn is giving out information that people do not want and were not looking for. So that analogy is just plain stupid.
That analogy works very well for Dr. Murray, he is the fool with the bullhorn, broadcasting unwanted information over the public airways. Some poor sap languishing over his bills late at night decides to take his mind off his troubles and turns on the late late late show. But instead of the usual movie, Dr. Murray has bought up the air time and is foaming out his own shame to millions of unsuspecting viewers.
He is the one that the druggies are laughing at as they take their bong hits, casting his pearls before swine.
Dr. Murray preys on the ignorant and the mentally unstable who find suddenly they are the "elect" just for tuning in. He is the man with the bullhorn. You are the trespasser coming into my house with your emails, not the kind of comments I asked for, but I still treated your comments with respect. I pity you.
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