Tangent: "Paul, You Have a Singular Reprobate Mind." And Other Flatteries

----- Original Message -----

From: reborn@oraclesofgod.org (Paul Stringini)

To: Name And Address Withheld

Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 12:17 AM

Subject: Re: Your original message

XXXX, I am going to be hyper busy over the next few days with non recreational commitments, once i get caught up I'll write back, I'm goin to take a little more time answering so that I can do the "third edit" for civility and take my instinctively rude remarks out, I know you never said I'm a jerk but you really don't have to, it comes very naturally to me. Arrogant etc etc, I'm really not proud, but being gifted (and gifts can be for good or evil) i tend to be very confident in my rhetorical abilities, and my analytical skills ... arrogant? ... yeah, well, truly, there is nothing more arrogant than the truth, When anyone stands up and says, "This is the way it is." It always seems arrogant to someone who disagrees. Paul

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 1:20 PM

Subject: Fw: Your original message

I do not wish to continue to follow this route that we are on. I will oblige you this one last time. You do have excellent rhetorical abilities and analytical skills. Regardless, your control over how to use those abilities and skills is seriously wanting. Your abilities are powerful tools that can be used to attain great and wonderful results but they can also be used in such a manner in that they produce very negative results.You have a blatant pride in those abilities and a need to remind people of them and that displays an arrogant and prideful attitude.You revel in the attention your rhetorical and analytical abilities give you.You say that you are confident in your skills and abilities but this need to remind people of your abilities and skills indicates a serious confidence issue..You have a serious need to attack the abilities and skills of those persons you are corresponding with, if you don't get your own way with them,at least in this forum.You flay away at them because you know that the chances of them having the same abilities is unlikely so you feel comfortable and confident that they will present very little resistance to you causing you any embarrassment. I am going to show you a mystery that you have obviously not learned about the word of God in all that you have done such extensive study.

First of all a minister of the word has no power in himself ,rather it is the power in the word if properly employed that gives the minister power.The following verses are an example of the power of Gods word in that they reveal the lack of power that man has to access God the father ,God the son and The father and the son are a completely impenetrable circle.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

A minister can cajole,criticize,insult,bully,threaten,belittle, or try to shame an individual,all he wants but he creates nothing but harm to the individual and his own efforts and cause, and indirectly Gods, by going down this road.What I am getting at is that a minister must bring forth the word ,and let the word cajole,criticize,insult threaten,belittle and shame an individual. And if that individual does not digest what that minister brings forth it is not the ministers right nor responsibility to try and ram it down that persons throat. God in his time may or may not allow the individual to digest the truths from the word.For a minister to engage in such a manner indicates the pursuit of a personal agenda not Gods agenda. You yourself have admitted that you are still learning so you have to be careful If you are going to present yourself as a representative of Gods word, why in Gods name would you take it upon yourself to personally insult an individual that comes to this forum to commune with you, for the sake of a personal agenda. If that is the agenda of this forum then you are not doing Gods work.I know that this forum has been set up for the purpose of rebuttal to Murrays doctrines but we are all Christians searching for the truth and in such we are communing, and you are not my enemy that I should be lectured in the lesson of sticks and stones. Paul you are talking to a man who has been trying to deal with his own arrogance all his life and has had some success,it is not a quick process.,and its cause is a deep seated anger that the individual has to come to terms with,so I know arrogance when I see it..

The word is much sharper than any mans tongue as the following verse attests to. So in effect it is not your word nor your rhetorical nor your analytical abilities that bring forth truth ,rather it is the power of the word of God.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Paul you can post this or any other exchanges that we have had of a personal nature or you can scrub it all, it does not matter to me, it will not make me think any more or less of you either way. The only bearing on how I feel about you is whether or not you change you ways. I may not have the sharp precise rhetorical and analytical skills that you have but I am 60 years old and in my lifetime have learned a little about human nature.Please read the following verses and see if anything here may apply to you. Again Paul I am not suggesting that you are an evil man but the following verses are an excellent list to gauge yourself against,for the purpose of self examination,for there is not a man alive on the face of this planet who is not subject to one or more or all, of these faults and vices,not one. Our own words condemn us without having condemnation from any other source.In all these faults and vices we sin.

2 Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2 Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2 Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

On an even more personal note Paul ,I see a glaring combative nature in you,I know for I have it as well. Much of what I have brought forth from scripture or at least some, I am fully confidant rings true but you deny everything. The difference between you and me Paul is that I am trying to reign in my shortcoming,but you give them full reign Having had some success in that control has made me more mellow in my old age,well not that old LOL. I am not saying that a combative nature is bad but it is if it is not controlled, lest it blinds you..

Paul I say these things out of love for we all struggle with the same problems,the hardest challenges in life that we face is to admit that we have shortcomings. It is a very difficult thing to humble yourself and admit to having shortcomings.Remember pride always comes before a great fall.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: Your tangental message

I do not wish to continue to follow this route that we are on. I will oblige you this one last time.

Ok, thanks.

You do have excellent rhetorical abilities and analytical skills. Regardless, your control over how to use those abilities and skills is seriously wanting.

Your abilities are powerful tools that can be used to attain great and wonderful results but they can also be used in such a manner in that they produce very negative results.

I do control them, I think that you are mostly unhappy with the way I control them. I feel that sometimes you are unhappy with the way I use my skills because I'm using these abilities to dismember what you consider to be the truth. I fully understand why that would seem like an abuse of my powers. And that is what I think it comes down to. The reason you are criticizing me is because I'm supposed to be wrong here. You are unable to accept that it is far more than my rhetorical abilities that are frustrating you. That is why you keep bringing up my skills, because you cannot accept that I have defeated you by the truth, so you make this all about my abilities. The negative results that you are talking about is really your frustration and defeat.

You have a blatant pride in those abilities and a need to remind people of them and that displays an arrogant and prideful attitude.

That is not so, you keep bringing up my abilities. Here is how it goes with me and you: first you try to make a point, then I disagree and make your point look bad/foolish/wrong, next you take this personally, then YOU blame my rhetorical abilities for your defeat and say that I'm abusing them. You are the one that keeps bringing up my abilities, and when you do, I don't know what you expect me to do, but I acknowledge that I have these abilities, then you counter and say I'm arrogant and prideful, etc. for acknowledging the fact that I have gifts. I have begun to recognize this pattern from you, it keeps repeating, when you start bringing up my abilities, that is a signal that you are defeated.

You revel in the attention your rhetorical and analytical abilities give you.

No, I don't, I just don't let you put me down for having them. Most of the time when you mention my abilities you are trying to insult me or put my abilities down, suggesting that I am like Satan, or suggesting that my abilities signify something negative. I will not submit to the degradation of the gifts of God, I don't "revel," I just take your criticism and turn it into something positive, at which point you usually get really mad and start accusing me of pride, arrogance, etc.

You say that you are confident in your skills and abilities

I don't remember precisely saying that I am "confident", in my abilities, I am confident in the gifts of God which he has given me, not that I trust in them to save me, but that I trust that he has given me these gifts and I am confident that I should use them to speak the truth that he has revealed to me, I am confident that the gifts he has given me are good and perfect and worthy.

but this need to remind people of your abilities and skills indicates a serious confidence issue..

I don't have any such need, you are the one who keeps bringing it up, and bringing it up, and bringing it up. All I do is respond to what you say, I have made remarks about my skills is in response to put-downs or praise from you. Your need to do this, is indicative of a defensive mechanism meant to deligitimize my reasoning.

You have a serious need to attack the abilities and skills of those persons you are corresponding with, if you don't get your own way with them,at least in this forum.

Not true, I do not normally do that, I only attack those who are the enemies of the truth. I have a responsibility, people have to be informed that your interpretive methods are wrong/bad/illogical/ignorant, take your pick. There is not much good-will in the Bible for false teachers, I've never noticed any. And that is what you are right now, you are a proclaimer and instructor of false things. I attack your flawed abilities of interpretation because people need to know exactly what they are and exactly why they don't work. What am I supposed to do? Pretend like it makes sense? Give credit where credit is not due? I have no respect for your interpretive methods and it is nothing less than righteous to inform others that they are flawed.

The doctrines of Dr. Murray make me angry, I hate them, I hate them with a perfect hatred, and you are defending those ideas, you have put yourself in the position of defending doctrines that are not worthy of defense and which are not due respect either. It would be irresponsible of me to fail to put the doctrines of Dr. Murray where they belong, in the trash, in the fire, down the toilet.

Psalm 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
128 ... I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

I consider any false doctrine taught in the name of Jesus Christ to be blasphemy and wickedness. I H. A. T. E. IT.

Psalm 139:20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Putting the name of Jesus over these doctrines is like putting the name of Jesus over a whorehouse.

Bob, believe it or not, I'm being gentle with you, I'm always being gentle with you. Jesus commanded us to love our enemies, but that does not mean that I should give place to the enemy. When you come on my site defending these ABOMINATIONS, BLASPHEMIES and WICKED THINGS, the only reason I can even be gentle with you is that I know that you don't know what you are doing.

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

The thing is XXXX, that you and I have had a long talk now, and I have gone the gentle route and I have been patient and I have given you the truth, and since you have refused to hear the truth, I reject you, at least for now. You are a heretic to me (and you should consider me one by now). I would not continue talking to you except that when people want to know what is wrong with the Kenite doctrine (or any of the others you have taken up the defense of), they can read our discussion and see what a badly documented doctrine it really is.

You flay away at them because you know that the chances of them having the same abilities is unlikely so you feel comfortable and confident that they will present very little resistance to you causing you any embarrassment.

I am confident that I will not be embarrassed because God is on my side, not because I have any special abilities, God confounds the wisdom of the wise, and makes the knowledge of the prudent foolish, these things are as nothing before him, if God was on your side you should have embarrassed me long ago. You try to guess at "why" I do what I do, and you always come up with the wrong answer, I do what I do because of my zeal for the truth.

I flay away at the enemies if God, or the truth, and of Godly doctrine, which you have made yourself to be (though unwittingly) It is right that I should use full force:

2Kings13:18 And he said, Take the arrows. And he took them. And he said unto the king of Israel, Smite upon the ground. And he smote thrice, and stayed. 19 And the man of God was wroth with him, and said, Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times; then hadst thou smitten Syria till thou hadst consumed it: whereas now thou shalt smite Syria but thrice.

When it comes to enemies, I will smite them until they are destroyed, with all my power. I would be much more fearful of neglecting to use what God has given me or to waste it on worldly pursuits.

I am going to show you a mystery that you have obviously not learned about the word of God in all that you have done such extensive study.

You are always putting me down with backhanded compliments, you do this all the time. Your a very passive-aggressive guy. I usually say something like "I'm glad that you recognize that I have done so much studying." But it is just me not accepting your demeaning of the work of God in me.

First of all a minister of the word has no power in himself ,

Right, I'll just go with that, but I think you meant "of himself" because a minister of God must have power in himself.

rather it is the power in the word if properly employed that gives the minister power.

Wrong.

If that was the case, then the true power would be in the ability for, "proper employment," in that case, the word itself would not be powerful, nor either would give man power, but the ability to "properly employ" would be what really makes the word powerful, also, if what you say was true, then it would also have to be true that if the word was not properly employed, that it would not give the minister power. Which is not true. Look:

Whether the word is properly employed, or not; the word is powerful, absolutely. When false ministers use the word, it still has power, when I use the word, It still has power, when you use the word, it still has power. For good or ill it still has power and men use it for both.

What then gives the true minister of God power?

1Cor4;20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

Take that how you like.

1Cor2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

The spirit of God is where the true power comes from, someone who is unskilled in the written word can still exhibit the power of God, they can be used of God because the power of God comes from him, not from words on a page (as powerful as those words are, I hope you get my meaning, I mean that the word of God is a living thing, it comes fresh out of the mouth of spirit filled prophets, to this day)

1Thess1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

2Cor6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

The written word of God is powerful, but it is not THE power.

The following verses are an example of the power of Gods word in that they reveal the lack of power that man has to access God the father ,God the son and The father and the son are a completely impenetrable circle.

Bob, sometimes you mystify me, the verses don't say that stuff, you accuse me of denying the word, but you keep quoting scriptures which do not bear on the subject you are talking about. I don't even know what you are talking about, "a completely impenetrable circle," What?? What does that mean? And I'm supposed to get that from Matt 11:27 and John 14:6? We got a mystery here alright, the mystery of how you come up with this stuff.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

What does this verse have to do with the power of God's word? I don't get it, and I'm guessing everyone else is scratching their heads too. What? And what word? I assume you mean the written word?...Bob, when you get into this sort of a philosophical discussion you have to be clear.

I'm trying to think, is it because the son of God is called "the word of God"? Ok, if that is it, then yes, He is the word of God, but do not be mistaken into thinking that the written word of God is him. Let me re-say that: He is the word of God, but the written word of God (the bible) is not him. I hope you get that. Jesus is more than the bible, the word of God is more than the bible. Jesus is a living breathing person, the living embodiment of the word, but as it was written:

John21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Jesus is more than that written word. One can understand all the mysteries of the bible but if Jesus is not personally involved with them, they do not know God. But I'm still just guessing what you meant.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I still don't get what that has to do with properly handling the word.

A minister can cajole,criticize,insult,bully,threaten,belittle, or try to shame an individual,all he wants, but he creates nothing but harm to the individual and his own efforts and cause, and indirectly Gods, by going down this road.

This is the sort of typical world-wisdom you usually speak, I'm quite certain that you did not pick that up from the Bible. The wisdom of God speaks differently, I cannot harm the cause of God:

2 Cor 8:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. 7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

2 Cor 8:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

This is the truth, whether I do truth or falsehood, I can do nothing against the truth, if I'm not right, then I am fulfilling God's cause in the role of a false teacher, I studied with Dr. Murray, but it did not harm my cause. Still, that does not mean that God has not called me to speak against Murray, false prophets have their time, but it expires, things change.

And I'm not really dealing with you as with an individual. I'm thinking of others as I talk with you, if it was about you I would not even be writing anymore.

What I am getting at is that a minister must bring forth the word ,and let the word cajole,criticize,insult threaten,belittle and shame an individual.

Is there a difference? I don't see any. You have said that there is something to the way one handles the word, and I will tell you that depending on who is handling the word, one can use or misuse the word to do all that and achieve deception. In the bringing forth of the word is all the mischief wrought. If Dr. Murray merely brought forth the word, he might do some good, but he does not bring it forth naked and pure, he adorns it with his opinions and analysis, as do all teachers.

I bring forth the word and I bring forth TRUTH.

And if that individual does not digest what that minister brings forth it is not the ministers right nor responsibility to try and ram it down that persons throat.

I never do that Bob. You keep coming back for more, I don't ram anything down anyone's throat. YOU COME TO ME. I give you the truth and then you get angry and attack me, I turn the attack into a blessing, you get really angry and call me arrogant, and start to try to tell me how to write to you, but I don't keep ramming the same things down your throat. That is what YOU do Bob, that is your method.

Even so, the idea of "ramming it down someone's throat" as being forbidden is more world-wisdom. Occasionally things must be rammed down people's throats:

Jer 25:15 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it. 28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.

Ex32:20 And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strowed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.

God in his time may or may not allow the individual to digest the truths from the word.

Ok.

For a minister to engage in such a manner indicates the pursuit of a personal agenda not Gods agenda.

I don't agree at all. Method says nothing about motive. What if God's agenda is to ram it down someone's throat? I did that once, to a family member, and it worked, but I've never done it to you or anyone else on the web.

You yourself have admitted that you are still learning so you have to be careful

Yeah, and that ends when I die. What does that have to do with what I've already learned? If you actually inquired of me concerning something I don't feel knowledgeable about, then you would see something different from me.

If you are going to present yourself as a representative of Gods word, why in Gods name would you take it upon yourself to personally insult an individual that comes to this forum to commune with you, for the sake of a personal agenda.

I am not a representative of God's word, I am a representative of Jesus Christ. The word is what it is. The apostle Paul was a representative of Jesus Christ and he publicfly denounced those who were the enemies of Christ.

You are not here to commune with me, commune means to share in common things, if you had come here for that, you can bet you would be treated differently, just read the emails from the nice folks who actually did come here to commune with me. You came here to explore and argue topics that we do not share in common. You have come to me as an enemy of truth.

If that is the agenda of this forum then you are not doing Gods work.

You never came to "commune" in the first place, unless you take commune to mean "do battle" So your conclusion does not follow. Like I said before, I don't have and Agenda, God has one, and you are on it, taking care of you is what the agenda is for today.

I know that this forum has been set up for the purpose of rebuttal to Murrays doctrines but we are all Christians searching for the truth and in such we are communing,

No, we are not all Christians, a Christian is a "little Christ" If we are not willing to subject ourselves to the righteousness of God then we have no business claiming the name of Christ. "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." You always try to make me live up to your standards, but when I say that we have to live up to Christ's standards, you refuse. We do not have the same God we do not follow the same faith, I respect you as another human being in search of the truth, but I have no respect for the "truths" you have come to discuss with me.

and you are not my enemy that I should be lectured in the lesson of sticks and stones.

Wrong, I am your enemy.

Paul you are talking to a man who has been trying to deal with his own arrogance all his life and has had some success,it is not a quick process.,and its cause is a deep seated anger that the individual has to come to terms with,so I know arrogance when I see it..

Bob, I respect that, but you read too much into the scriptures, and you read too much into my words, you don't even understand where my anger is coming from or where it is really directed. You don't see me, you are reading words on a page and interpreting them, and you do about as poor a job understanding me as you do other writings. You confuse arrogance with boldness, you are arrogant, I am bold.

The word is much sharper than any mans tongue as the following verse attests to.

The word is on my tongue Bob, that is the whole point. That does not mean that a tongue is not sharp too, the tongue is very powerful.."

James3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

(I can only imagine what you are thinking right now.)

So in effect it is not your word nor your rhetorical nor your analytical abilities that bring forth truth ,rather it is the power of the word of God.

My abilities are what enable me to analyze your doctrine and demonstrate why it is wrong, but the truth is revealed to me by other means, my eyes were simply opened to it, that is all it takes, no analysis needed.

I don't really disagree here, the word is the power, but Bob, "How shall they hear except a preacher be sent?" Maybe they could just read the book?

Acts 8: 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

"The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:" What? isn't it written? Yes, but...

The gifts of God are given in order to bring forth the word of God, now , not just the old written word, but the word of prophecy, sometimes in church when I am leading the people in worship, the spirit of God comes over me and I speak in the spirit of prophecy, that is as much the word of God as anything written. And all the reasoning I've done with you? that is God's word too, because I serve him, and he speaks though me. Whether it be by scripture or by my mouth, much of what I'm speaking to you is God's word, because God's gift has brought it forth and this is the work which has been ordained for me. Whatever I say, that is said by the holyghost, is God's word. Do you even believe in the holyghost? You seem to think that the word of God is only the things written in that book, and the word spoken by a prophet will not make the written word void, but still, a prophet's mouth is filled with God's word.The word is laced into many of the things I say, you just don't recognize it because you do not know what God's word sounds like.

There is the power of the word of God, but the power is greater than the written word. The written word is weak, but when it is taken up by a minister of God it is truly powerful. In the hands of a deceiver, in the eyes of the blind, it can do much evil.

Why do you not understand my speech? Even because you cannot hear my word.

I know that one, I know all the scriptures you have ever quoted to me, I've never been surprised. Quoting that to me over and over does nothing against me, that word is on my side.

Paul you can post this or any other exchanges that we have had of a personal nature or you can scrub it all, it does not matter to me, it will not make me think any more or less of you either way.

I feel the same.

The only bearing on how I feel about you is whether or not you change you ways.

I don't care how anyone feel about me, I will be faithful in the truth that God has given me, I don't care what anyone thinks, when I get around to it I will alienate even more people, that I might obtain the elect.

I may not have the sharp precise rhetorical and analytical skills that you have but I am 60 years old and in my lifetime have learned a little about human nature.

No doubt, I can't wait till I'm as old as you are, I tell people that all the time, because I think I will have grown so much by then.

Please read the following verses and see if anything here may apply to you.

Will do

Again Paul I am not suggesting that you are an evil man

That is what you usually say before you suggest that I'm an evil person, or at least that what I'm doing is sinful, bad or otherwise unchristian,

but the following verses are an excellent list to gauge yourself against,

I have a better list I'll share with you later, because I think your list sucks, it smacks of legalism, you avoid doing all of those things and still burn in hell,

for the purpose of self examination,for there is not a man alive on the face of this planet who is not subject to one or more or all, of these faults and vices,not one.

Then every single man on the earth is going to burn in hell.

Our own words condemn us without having condemnation from any other source

Ok ?? If you do not stop doing those things, you will burn in Hell.

In all these faults and vices we sin.

2 Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
I don't do those

2 Tim 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Ok, there

2 Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Nothing there either

2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

I'm not subject to any of these. What kind of Christianity do you follow? If everyone is supposedly guilty of all these things, then how are we supposed to turn away from people like that????

If everyone is supposedly guilty of all these things, then how are we supposed to turn away from people like that????

If everyone is supposedly guilty of all these things, then how are we supposed to turn away from people like that????

Bob? I know you do them all, twice a day, but you need to realize that in the doing of these things you will burn in hell. If you do these things then you are not a Christian, if you do these things no Christian should maintain fellowship with you, that is what Paul said, "FROM SUCH TURN AWAY."

You don't get Christianity, you are so bound up in these false doctrines that you don't even know what it is really all about. You have a form of godliness, you have a way that you think makes you Godly, but you deny the power of God to make men free from sin, you deny the power that makes a man truly GODLY. You have a form of Godliness but deny the power of godliness.

You deny the power of godly righteousness. And instead cling to a perverse form of Godliness in which you feel there is something virtuous in affirming that "In all these faults and vices we sin." But if I were to affirm that then I would be a liar because I don't do those things. For you, one of the worst things a man could do is be literally godly.

2 Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

It does not even make sense. We are not supposed to be like that, and I know a few men that definitely are not.

2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Tim 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

You cannot be in the truth and resist the truth, You cannot be in the faith and be reprobate concerning the faith.

2 Tim 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
These are the people we are supposed to be watching out for, they are not the people in Church, at least they should not be.

Bob, since you don't believe in righteousness, why even look at that list? Just do your best to be good, trust Jesus, and pray God is not serious. If you practise any of the things on your list and do not repent, then you are reprobate concerning the faith and do resist the truth.

Here is a better list:

2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence,

add to your faith virtue;

and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance;

and to temperance patience;

and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness;

and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Here is another list (a bad one), if you do these things you will not inherit the kingdom of God, I don't go by this list I go by the one above...the wicked go by this list

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;

lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry,

heresies,
21 Envyings,

of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

On an even more personal note Paul ,I see a glaring combative nature in you,I know for I have it as well.

I'd like to avoid conflict, I'm not a combative guy, the problem is that I have a sense of right and wrong, and I cannot make peace with wrong. You desire to lay some sin to my charge, there isn't any.

Much of what I have brought forth from scripture or at least some, I am fully confidant rings true but you deny everything.

No, there is a smattering of insignificant points that I agreed with you on. Your confidence is misplaced.

The difference between you and me Paul is that I am trying to reign in my shortcoming,but you give them full reign

No the difference between me and you is that you slander me and I critique you actual interpretations, you never take the time to say why what I say is wrong, you just repeat the same stuff over and over, I have not sinned against you. All I have done is resist an enemy. You sweet talk me now and the next moment you accuse and slander and blaspheme.

Ga2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

I will not give place to you, no not for an hour, you are a false brother, the Apostle Paul called out false brethren by name when he wished.

Having had some success in that control has made me more mellow in my old age,well not that old LOL.

And not that much control.

I am not saying that a combative nature is bad but it is if it is not controlled, lest it blinds you..

A combatative nature IS bad, and I don't have one... look me up on Mychurch.com and ask people in my church...

Rom2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:... 8 ... unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,

It is just that I love sound doctrine and that brings me into conflict with the vast majority of people who do not love sound doctrine, like you, you love doctrine that is not sound, you love doctrine that is contentious and the world is filled with contentious people like you who want to argue with me and promote unsound doctrine.

What should I do? Make friends with those who are the enemies of truth?

This sort of condescension is unnecessary, you are talking to someone who has publicly confessed to masturbation and worse, what are your sins? Have you ever read my biography?. I know my weaknesses, that does not mean I just surrender to them and say, "Oh well they will rule me forever," I have been public about them confessing them in the open in Church, I just don;'t go around saying, "I gotta serve ungodliness after all." That is not humility, that is wickedness. Your doctrine is wickedness and I hate it, (not just the kenites, all this other stuff you are saying) it will not lead anyone to godliness it will not lead anyone to righteousness, all that it will do is lead people to a false sense of security and iniquity unrighteousness ungodliness and sin.

I do not doubt your sincerity, but you are an enemy of the truth

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, whose mouths must be stopped, I count you among them.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 11:50 AM

Subject: Re: Your tangental message

I just read this and its the last comment I am making in this thread.

Paul you have a singular reprobate mind.