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The Man I Love Is a Follower of the Shepherd's Chapel Part 4: The Rapture
The Question/Comment:
----- Original Message -----From: Name and Address WithheldTo: reborn@oraclesofgod.org (Paul Stringini)Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 3:29 PMSubject: Re: Murray's TeachingThank you for the insight Paul.I'm still not quite sure about this Companion Bible but I'm willing to keep an open mind about it.
So far things with xxxx and I are going pretty well, we've been able to discuss things without to much frusteration on either side. He listens to me and gives me a chance to provide him with backup information in which he does review although doesn't always agree with.It's a start and I'm thankful for that.We're currently discussing the end times. I believe God will come back and "rapture" his church first before the tribulation and Robert does not. He thinks we'll still be here. He does point out some good verses which point to this effect but I've also been able to show him verses which point to the Church being removed before the tribulation.What are your thoughts on this?I pray all is well with you and yours.
My Response:
----- Original Message -----From: reborn@oraclesofgod.orgTo: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:46 AMSubject: Re: Murray's TeachingThanks and I'm glad to hear things are going well and hope they continue,The companion bible is not a Shepherd's Chapel product and can be found in mainstream bible catalogs, I wouldn't be any more sure of it than I would be of any study bible. The rapture is an issue which you would find the Companion bible agrees with you.I used to believe in the rapture but I have always hated it.Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;Also, in many parts of the world Christians are going through their own "great tribulation" and are being tortured and killed.The only place where the rapture has great appeal is in the pampered and decadent west. When your family is being tortured and killed before your eyes, the promise of escape from "the tribulation period to come" is entirely empty. How much worse is that going to be?Furthermore, a very simple understanding of prophetic symbology will demonstrate that the church is right in the middle of the tribulation, and is causing some of it. The two witnesses of Revelation Chapter 11 are the Church, and that can be proved very simply. The other interpretations are all guesswork, this is the book of Revelation interpreting itself:(Referring to the two witnesses) Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.Rev 1:20 The mystery of ...the seven golden candlesticks....the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
The reason there are only two candlesticks is because Jesus made good on his threat against the five Apostate churches to "remove thy candlestick out of his place"Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.Symbols in Revelation do not change, if a candlestick is a church in chapter one, it is not Moses in chapter 11.I do not believe the tribulation is for the Church, we are not in trouble, the world is, we will suffer things, yes.1Pet4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.What is the problems with American Christians? Are we just fat cowards?This is the story of the Church in the great tribulation:Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
That is glory and something to rejoice over, can you imagine going up to heaven with all those suffering and tormented saints, and they say to you, "I was tortured to death, how about you?" and we reply, "We lived sumptuously and in luxury such as the world has never known, and when trouble came, we got out of there, Jesus didn't want his fat little pum'kins bruised." Thank God that is not going to happen.To me it is one of the darkest and most shameful of false prophecies, and the fact that it is so widely accepted and beloved makes me ashamed of American Christianity. In the prophets, a similar thing happened, those who tried to escape the calamity to come, had it fall hardest on them. When hard time begin to fall on America, really hard times, and I don't even say it has to be the end times, but when deprivation occurs, and all the things they wished to escape come (and I don't even mean death) not all, but many will fall away, because they are counting on the rapture. Not all. But many.See, many are counting on going instantly from one lap of luxury on earth to another lap of luxury in heaven. And perhaps not consciously, but they do love their "stuff" and the pleasures of earth. When those pleasures go away, the remaining Church will not be troubled, because we have set our affections on the things which are above, and not on the things of the earth.Some people like to say this passage is about the rapture:John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.It is funny because the question asked in the verse I am about to quote almost sounds like a question about the rapture, in fact it would be a good time for Jesus to start talking about the raptureJohn 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?That sounds almost like the rapture, because only believers can (are supposed to) see it.John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode (Mansion) with him.
The word abode in the original language is the exact same word as Mansion in verse 2; but "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." is not about the rapture or going to heaven, it is about Christ coming to us in the Holy Spirit. Jesus is not building "mansions in heaven" and waiting for us to inhabit them. We are supposed to reside in these abodes right now. (It was yet future while Jesus walked the Earth)The word "Mansion" in old English means "room" not "palace" what has happened is that the word Mansion has been transformed, a lot like "crib" is being transformed (today), God has One House and there are many rooms in it, many abiding places, abodes. But they are spiritual places, not physical.That is what Jesus was teaching in John 14, understanding it come from paying close attention to the context and flow of thought, we can't just pull out two or three verses and change the subject.Anyway that is one place, I would like to hear what other places are supposed to establish the Rapture, if you like, I'm not going to harangue you about it, but if you would like to hear the other side, I'd like to tell you about it.Sincerely, Paul
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