24 Questions From an Evangelical Murray Detractor Re: The Shepherd's Chapel and Dr. Arnold Murray

Greetings

Thanks for your insight. I have been listening to some of Arnold Murray's tapes. It's quite clear he has very different teachings than those of the evangelical faith. This is what I understand to be some of Murray's teachings. Am I correct? Please let me know.

1. Mr. Murray does not believe in the orthodox teaching of the Trinity, that God exists eternally in three persons. Mr. Murray teaches that God is a single person who acts through three different offices. He states "we're going to explain in a sense, if you would the Godhead. Many say he Trinity, whatever you wish to call it."

No, he doesn't (didn't) but he started talking like he does in the mid-90's in an effort to appear more mainstream

2. Murray does not teach that Jesus is the Eternal Son, Second Person of the Trinity.

That is a complex question, you need to ask one at a time, I don't know how to answer this.

3. Murray state "God got lonesome so He created everything for His pleasure. He wanted company. Why would God be lonely?

Why would you ask me? How could anyone know either way. I never agreed with that either but it is clear that God wanted more company.

4. Murray states "God made Jesus Christ in his own likeness, that's why he is called the Son of God. Was he not the son from eternity?

Are you asking this question of me or of Arnold Murray?

5. Would Murray agree that the Holy spirit is a person? I have head him say Christ's spirit is holy, this spirit returned to the father, what spirit, the Holy Spirit because it was his spirit.

I don't know. I doubt it. He would probably slither out of the question.

6. Murray states "The Son was created in his [God's] exact image. Is he saying that the Son of god came into being at a certain time? Evangelicals would say the Son was never created, he's eternal.

I don't know, I'm sure they do.

7. Murray states in his tape on John 1 concerning Jesus coming to earth, "It's God's way of saying I ask you [the Father] to be born in the flesh, I'm not too good to do it myself." This surely is a strange statement!

I think you got it wrong, it sounds like he is going off on Heb 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;" I think you have misapplied the pronouns.

8. Murray teaches God does not know the future. A question from a viewer asks Murray, "If God knows all things, so why did He tell Adam and Eve not to eat a certain fruit when He knew in advance that they would eat it?" Murray's answer: "He didn't know."

Yeah, he is a good Arminian like most Evangelicals, He doesn't really believe in predestination in it's true, biblical, sense.

9. Murray teaches that born again is when a spirit (a spiritual entity from another age) enters a physical body, and is born innocent on earth.

Yep.

10. Murray teaches Jesus is not flesh and bone presently in heaven. Evangelicals say he is.

And I don't have enough information from either of them. This is the truth. Jesus body was raised, but it is a transformed body, not a new/different, but a new/altered body. It is the same body, changed (is it the same ATOMS? You judge.) I do not think the bodies are EXACTLY the same QUALITATIVELY. They can't be.

2	Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I take what the Apostle Paul said on the subject to be Authoritative.

35	But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36	Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37	And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38	But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39	All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40	There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41	There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42	So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43	It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44	It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45	And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46	Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47	The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48	As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49	And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50	Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

11. Murray teaches Christians will get rid of this flesh body and be changed into a spirit/spiritual body at the 7th trumpet. Our bodies will be like angels as in the first earth age--spirit, the earth as flesh and bone--3rd earth age back to spirit body.

I think that is what he says, I don't believe that. (anymore) *edit

12. Murray teaches "serpent seed" doctrine, Eve having sexual intercourse with the serpent (Satan), which resulted in her pregnancy that produced Cain. The devil's literal offspring. What does Murray do with Gen. 4:1?

He never seemed to see it as a major road block, looking at it again, I don't either other verses undo the doctrine better.

Also if Eve ate the fruit, did not Adam also? Did Adam then have sexual relations with the serpent as well?

That has been suggested

13. Murray teaches that Ham physically seduced his own mother (Noah's wife), and had sexual relations with her while Noah slept nearby.

Yes

14. Murray teaches we pre-existed with God prior to living on earth.

You obviously did not read my commentary

15. Murray teaches there was an earth age prior to Adam when a race of people lived.

Sort of, they would be "angelic people."

16. Murray claims that he has a 10-50 million year old angelic footprint.

It is not his, (and I do not think he ever clainmed it was "his") *edit it comes from a creation science guy, Karl Baugh(?), Karl calls it Antediluvian, Murray calls it "Angelic" because Murray believes in old-earth creationism; the footprint is not unique and comes from sediments calculated to be 10-50 mil years old.

17. Murray teaches the lost ten tribes of Israel theory.

It is no theory that the ten tribes were "lost." The "theory" part is when people try to identify the ten tribes as the Anglo-Saxon Race. Even if true, worthless. There is an African-Israel side of this type of thinking that gets little notice.

18. Murray teaches if anyone believes in the rapture he is "deceived." The rapture is "cultic" and from "Satan." The antichrist coming to rapture them away.

I partly agree, the rapture is a lie.

19. Murray states some will be naked as jaybirds in heaven.

He thinks people who do are deceived will be saved, but will have no righteous acts to cover them.

20. Murray teaches Jesus went to Glastonbury, England at age twelve.

He has a book about that, I owned it but found it boring and speculative

21. Murray teaches that the Bible should contain a 29th chapter of Acts.

I hate that Chapter

22. Murray claims he has translated and has the correct understanding of the Bat Creek Stone. It looks that his findings and understanding have been rejected by scholars.

Whatever.

23. Oops forgot one--I've noticed that Murray does not state concerning Jesus that he existed with God from all eternity, Jesus is the eternal Son of God, second person of the Trinity. He will state that he was from the beginning. But Murray will also say we are from the beginning John 15:27, but that does not mean from eternity.

? (For my comments on the trinity doctrine see this discussion)

24. I have noticed that Shepherd's Chapel book list has no books by today's leading evangelical scholars. Why is this?

He doesn't agree with them.

I personally think that Arnold Murray and "today's leading evangelical scholars" are both leading people to hell.