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"Remember We Are All Brothers In CHRIST" 
i.e. It Is Wrong to be Critical of The Shepherd's Chapel and Pastor Arnold Murray

The Question/Comment:

----- Original Message -----
From:  Name and Address Withheld
To: reborn@oraclesofgod.org (Paul Stringini)
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: life
 
Hello, I have been reading your website on Arnold Murray. I understand the ways of the world and do not like them.  But you must understand that Mr. Murray is but flesh, as so are you. Though we may believe to be correct in all we do.  The flesh will always fall short.  I have listened to many preachers and many different interpretations of the bible.  Brother Murray may be wrong in some things he teaches, but who is perfect in this world? 

He teaches in what he believes, as do you.  Jesus said if they are not against us they are with us.  Paul said though I try to do right it doesn't always work out that way. I have studied with brother Murray,  and have learned a lot about my lord Jesus Christ. What you understand to be true and correct and what another understands to be true and correct, is not the question. Because we are all but men and women made of the same ingredients .

Though he may be steadfast in what he believes and you may be steadfast in what you believe, you both believe in our lord Jesus Christ. Therefore you are one in him. I do not judge you and I do not judge him because the day anyone of us  become perfect. It will only be in death. So remember we are all brothers in CHRIST and only made perfect through him.

My Response: edits in maroon and in () as in: (then)

----- Original Message -----
From: reborn@oraclesofgod.org
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: life
 
Hi XXXXXX,
 
As I read your email the first obvious thing that comes to mind is: do we teach the scriptures by the flesh or by the spirit?   If we teach it according to the spirit (then) there will be no error. 
 
1Cor2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
 
As you said, "The flesh will always fall short." If we teach the scriptures according to the flesh then our teaching will be full of error.
 
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
If one continues to teach false doctrine, and continues to do the works of an heretic; he will not inherit the kingdom of God.  That is what the Apostles of Jesus Christ taught.
 
Rom2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
 
Dr. Murray teaches against the rapture doctrine and other false doctrines, if he also holds and teaches false doctrines then he is judge and condemner of himself.  This philosophy of "We are all in the brotherhood of making mistakes," comes from man and exists to protect corrupt men such as Dr. Murray.  Do people make mistakes?  Of course, and these can be forgiven, but if a murderer keeps on murdering...what then?  If a teacher of false doctrine will not stop his false teaching...then what?
 
Tit7 In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine showing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,  Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
 
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
 
That is all I am doing with Dr. Murray, marking him, he is a spreader of corruption. 
 
You said "Jesus said if they are not against us they are with us"
 
Jesus the Lord said that in response to one who, "was casting out devils in your name"  do you think that the Lord Jesus would actually say the same thing about someone "teaching false doctrine in your name?"  Do you think, for a moment, that Jesus Christ would have said, "He is with us?"  If you do, then you and I believe in a very different Jesus than I do
 
Jesus (Actually, Paul said this, but Jesus taught the same principle [the parable of the hidden leaven, & etc]) said "A little leaven leavens the whole lump."  A little false doctrine makes your whole ministry false, that is CORRUPTION.  Jesus used the example of leaven because even though 99% of the bread may be pure, the presence of Just a little leaven makes the whole thing evil.
 
The act of teaching false doctrine is "against Christ,"  and not for him.  The philosophy of "I'm leavened, you're leavened, we're all leavened," is devilish and straight from Satan.  It sounds so nice, but it will lead to death.
 
1 Tim6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 
I do not call such people "brethren,"  They are the enemies of the Gospel. The enemies of Jesus Christ.  I am not one with them, or of them.  My words are the pure unleavened truth.
 
You said "Paul said though I try to do right it doesn't always work out that way"
 
Paul said that in the context of what it is like living under the law. Romans Chapter 7 is the single most misunderstood chapter in the Bible. I hear people refer to it frequently, directly or indirectly, when they try to excuse their continual sinning. "Paul couldnít stop sinning!" is a common appeal.

 

The conclusion of Romans chapter seven is this:

Rom7:25 So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin

For many folks, that settles it. They take that to be the intended state of the Christian. That God has saved us so that we could "want to serve him," but, "serve sin instead." How convenient for those who love to sin! You can have your cake and eat it too.

What this view does is ignore the context of that statement. As I said, that statement is the conclusion of the chapter. So what is(are) the premise(s) from which that conclusion is being drawn?

Romans7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

We are talking about the law. Paul next speaks of the way marriage law has dominion over a spouse as long as both are alive(2,3). He concludes:

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law  by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Ok there is a very important thin being said here. We are "dead to the law." Conceptually, if we are "dead to the law," how can the conclusion of this matter be that "we serve the law with our minds"?

It is just as contradictory as saying, "Iím dead to lust," but, "I serve lust with my mind." So we are beginning to see a distinction between those who are in Christ and are "dead to the law, " and those over whom the law "hath dominion so long as they live."

Letís keep following Paulís thought:

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Paul is speaking as though he is no longer in the flesh. People often talk like their flesh still has power.

Someone once said to me, "The first type of sin is the bondage of sin. We cannot escape it, it is an inherent part of our human nature. This is the 'flesh' of us that we cannot escape... ....we must be constantly aware that we also retain a sin nature until we are redeemed in the flesh by Christ."

I do not deny that their flesh still has power over them, Iím just saying, brethren, it ought not so to be!

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Iím just going to leave that one be for now, I want to stay focused.

7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The law is not sin, but the law makes things sinful and brings death

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Up to this point Paul is using mostly "past tense" verbs. Starting with the next verse Paul switches tenses, speaking as one still under the law

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Even though Paul has switched tenses he has not switched his train of thought or the subject. He is talking about what it is like to be "under the law" "carnal" "sold under sin" all terms of bondage and not consistent with what he has already declared of those who are truly in Christ. The things laid out in chapter 6 or what will be coming in chapter 8

Romans 6 "Shall we continue in sin?" Yes?

"God forbid How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" No!

"He that is dead is freed from sin," Really?

"if we be dead with Christ," Oh!

"ye were the servants of sin;" I was...

"sin shall not have dominion over you;" It wonít?

"Being then made free from sin," Really?

"ye became the servants of righteousness." Now that is bondage Iíd want to be under! Bound to righteousness, not sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

So much for "freewill." This is the picture of someone, "doing their best," trying to fulfill their obligations to God via rules and regulations, via the "Law" Wherein no flesh can be justified.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Indeed, because my will is then agreeing with the law, that it is instructing me not to do things which I agree that I should not do. The Law of the conscience works in the same manner.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So much for "freewill." So, as Christians are we "dead to sin" or do we have sin "dwelling" in us. It is not merely a theoretical distinction. If I do not actually do righteousness and sin not, from the heart, then I cannot claim that sin is dead, it dwells.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

I have to say it again. So much for "freewill."

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Laws, Laws, Laws, and none of these Laws will work salvation, all these laws work death

Rom 8:2 The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Like I said, Paul may be speaking in the present tense. But he is talking about life under the law. Taking these verses out of context and applying them to a Christian walk is totally uncalled for and suspect. Slanderously claiming that Paul continued to sin like this, and was in bondage to sin, is also wrong and uncalled for.

This next verse is ejaculatory: and the numbers were placed in the verses wrong.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. (I am delivered)

Jesus Christ delivers from the body of this death. He does that right now, "in this present world." If you die in your sins it will be too late. Ananias and Sapphira died in their sins, I sure donít want to die in mine. And if God is gracious to me I wonít.

25 So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

That is not the description of a Christian walk. That is the conclusion of one who seeks to be righteous "by the Law" It is the description of a walk that does not please God and whose fruit is death. If you are walking in a Romans 7 mind-set, have placed yourself under the Law and not under Grace.

Rom8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

If you walk after the flesh and serve sin with your flesh, you will be condemned, you must repent, or God will surely condemn you. If you are in bondage to sin, you ought to seek him that has the power to stop your sinning, Jesus Christ the Righteous. Amen

Col1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
 
There is a perfection which can only be obtained in death but that is a sorry excuse to continue to manifest the works of the flesh.  We are supposed to live righteously and godly in this world and if you have lost sight of that, then you do not even understand what the grace of God is.
 
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
 
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin
 
Curtis the kind of defeatism which you are preaching to me in your email is absolutely wrong, following Christ is all about overcoming the flesh, and not walking in it, that includes false doctrine.  Though You claim not to judge, yet you have judged that there is something that I am doing that is wrong.  If you have not judged, then why do you feel the need to correct me, why not let me rip Murray to shreds, if I'm making a mistake it is just because we are all flesh and all brothers and whatever we do so long as we believe in Jesus it will all be ok.  Curtis, that is a fairy tail, or, more correctly, a devil's tail.
 
I do not have a problem judging, Jesus did not command us not to judge,  that is as out of context as saying that Jesus said "Go and sin."  Jesus commanded us to "Judge righteous judgment."
 
You said "Though he may be steadfast in what he believes and you may be steadfast in what you believe, you both believe in our lord Jesus Christ."
 
No, I testify to you today, that Dr. Murray and I do not believe in the same Lord Jesus Christ. 
 
Sincerely
Paul

Emailer's Response:

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: reborn@oraclesofgod.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: life
 
Hello,  I received the holy spirit at the age of twelve, since then there have been many lessons I have learned the hard way. The main one is thou shall not judge less thou be judged. We all go through life making mistakes but we must learn from them.  And I'm sure I will make many more before it is over. Arnold Murray may be making mistakes, but he will be judged in the end same as you will and same as every one will. I did not refer to Paul mistakes in life as sin he had committed but just to say he is not perfect. If we do not see ourselves as corruptible then we are not able to put on incorruption. Be sure I do not judge you for what you are doing to Arnold Murray.

 But just to say before one can pull the splinter out of his brother's eye we must remove the plank from our own. To discern is not to judge, therefore if I see you concentration on one man when the world is full of false doctrine, therefore I discern some animosity in the air.  Jesus said I did not come for the saved but for the unsaved.  I say to you love will cover a multitude of sin. 

I  do not know the bible word for word, nor can I quote scripture verse for verse, but the holy spirit is with me anyway.  He guides me through life day to day. When you quote so much scripture to me to justify your judging of brother Murray, remember the LORD said vengeance is mine. We must discern if a preacher is teaching right or wrong but we must not condemn  him, this is not our job. I pray you do not see this as a attack on you but as a reminder .  If we can see inside ourselves who we really are then we realize we are nothing without the grace of GOD. May you find peace and it be with you.

 

My Response: (Note: to discern is a form of judgment, besides, where does he decide that what I am doing is judging Arnold Murray?  In my opinion, I have not judged the man one bit, I have discerned his false teachings, that is all)

----- Original Message -----
From: reborn@oraclesofgod.org
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: life

 
XXXXXXX,
 
I feel like you are confusing ideas and imputing things to me that are not there.  For instance, you have cited "Vengeance belongeth to me" And I'd like to know in what way you feel I am "seeking vengeance" against Dr. Murray!?  Don't you think that what you are saying is a bit outlandish?  Vengeance? Condemnation? What sentence did I condemn Murray to? Detecting animosity?  You are judging things that you can't even look into, that is like me saying that I think Dr. Murray is "a bitter man."  HOW IN THE WORLD CAN ONE SAY THAT?!
 
In regard to this: "thou shall not judge less thou be judged"
 
It does not say "thou shalt not,"  first of all.  Second is that I'd like to know what that means to you, because in the same Chapter Jesus says
 
Matt7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
 
If you are not allowed to judge, then how are you supposed to tell the difference between a fig and a thistle and a wolf and a sheep?
 
"It sure acts like a wolf!  Well, I'm not allowed to judge...Let it run with the sheep."  Is that what Jesus wants?
 
"Ouch these thorns hurt!  Better not judge, I'll call these pointy things 'grapes!'"  Is that how we obey Christ?!?
 
Jesus also said this about Judgment:
 
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
 
But you say "thou shall not judge"
 
You have to take this into account also
 
Matt7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
 
So, after you see clearly, you are supposed to help your brother,  and you have suggested that I have a beam in my eye, I'd like to know what it is?  Since, in order to tell me that, you must be seeing clearly. You are trying to help me get something out of my eye, are you not?
 
I reject the Idea that I have "judged Murray" or that I ever tried to "justify" it by quoting a bunch of scriptures.   You cannot provide a quotation to me of one instance where I have judged Dr Murray, I have never judged him. I think the problem people have with that is that when I say "he is a false teacher" you try to say that I am judging him, well you are wrong, I'm not judging him, I'm judging his works,  "You shall know them by their fruits" God is going to judge him,  If I were to judge him then I would say "he is worthy of death"  and then, if I would receive death if I was also a false teacher (for with what judgment you judge you shall be judged)  But tell me in everything I have ever said about Arnold Murray, what is the judgment that I will receive that I have judged him worthy of ???? There is nothing, NOTHING. I have not judged false teachers, I have only identified him as one, according to his works.  That does not mean that I have pronounced some sort of judgment against him! God will provide the judgment. 
 
 All I have done is in accordance with the scriptures.  And according to LOVE.  Because I believe that Dr. Murray is a false teacher I have a responsibility to make that known.  If you see someone in sin, you are responsible to bring it to their attention otherwise you hate that person.  If you think Dr. Murray's teaching is has false things in it and you refuse to speak against it, then you HATE him and you HATE the people who listen to him. 
 
Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
 
I do not judge you, and it is not that you really judge me, but you judge the things that I do.  You really do.  And I judge the things you do.  It is God that will pronounce the judgment against the wicked FOR what they have done.  And some things are already judged. 
 
Is it wrong to tell a homosexual, "If you continue in your homosexuality, you will not inherit the kingdom of God?"  According to you, is that not judging that person?   Or is it rather warning them?   because the judgment of God is not some big secret.  That is where you totally fall off the wagon.   You are acting like you are completely ignorant of the judgment of God.  I'm not the one that judged false teachers, God did it.
 
And you have been a Christian so long and you do not know these things?
 
Sincerely,
Paul

Emailer's Response:

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: reborn@oraclesofgod.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: life

 
Hello, I know that GOD keeps certain things hidden from certain people until HE sees  fit to reveal these hidden things to them. You said that you believe that GOD has appointed DR. Murray in his false teachings. Therefore if this is GOD's will, why do you interfere, to do so would be to go against GOD's will.

In the end everyone who believes what they know to be true and right, will be shown the light. To say a man is a false profit is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell. This is judgment. What brother Murray teaches does not condemn people to hell nor does it lead them there. What he teaches could be from eyes to see where our's have not been opened yet. All I know is I listen to the word and let the HOLY SPIRIT guide me. IF I do not agree with all that is being said then I pray for guidance, and it is granted. This is why MR. Murray say's check the word for yourself, because all man are fallible. As I am as you are as is every man that is in the flesh. He teaches the bible word for word and gives his interpretation of what he believes it to mean, if he is wrong in what he say's he also will be shown the light at his appointed time. 

This I know to be true. Brother Murray teaches Jesus and the cross and his resurrection, and to believe in Christ as our redeemer. The son of GOD the only begotten and through HIS name and HIS name only may we be saved. He may be wrong about Cain and the flood and the elect but this does not lead men to hell, but gives them free will to read the word and determine what it say's for themselves. The bible is a living bible it leads different people in the direction GOD sees fit, not every one who reads the word has the same interpretation for we all have a purpose in GOD's plan and not all have the same purpose. But we all have one purpose in common and that is to love and serve GOD.


 

My Response:

----- Original Message -----
From: reborn@oraclesofgod.org
To: 
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: life

 
Good afternoon, :-)
"You said that you believe that GOD has appointed DR. Murray in his false teachings. Therefore if this is GOD's will, why do you interfere, to do so would be to go against GOD's will."
 
Not so, God appoints false prophets and he appoints true, the fact that he appoints false prophets does not mean that the true must keep silence before the false.    I do not hinder his broadcasts or anything like that.  Just because God's will is that there be false prophets that does not mean that it is not also his will that we use the word of God to fight against them (in fact, THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT)
 
 
1Cor11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
 
There have to be heresies among God's people, in order to reveal those whom God truly approves of.  How will that be if we hold our peace forever?
 
Additionally, I have not really "interfered" with Dr. Murray's Ministry (I mean like by actually going and trying to stop him).   Besides there is this to consider:
 
Eze3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
 
If I do not speak against what I know to be wrong then I will suffer for it.
 
"To say a man is a false profit is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
 
Really?  You are a pretty harsh judge Curtis.  Ezekiel 3:19 says that if the wicked turns from his wicked way he will be saved.  But you are essentially right, the judgment of God says that false prophets are going to die.  The judgment of God also says this:
 
Gal5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
Apply each of those categories to your statement and think about it, noone who does these things is going to enter the kingdom of heaven:
 
"To say a man is an adulterer is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is a fornicator is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is unclean is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is lasciviousis to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is an idolator is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is a witch is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is hateful is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is quarellsome is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is envious is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is wrathful is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is conspiratorial is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is divisive is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is an heretic is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man bears ill-will is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is a murderer is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is a drunkard is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
"To say a man is the kind that like to party is to say at that moment that the man is going to hell."
 
I like the drunkard the best because you can easily judge whether someone is a drunkard.  So when you see a drunkard what do you do?  Deny he is a drunkard?  make excuses?  What?.
 
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
 
To die in our sins is deadly, it may be also said that if we die in our sins then "you do not believe that I am he."  Because if we believe in Jesus then we will not die in our sins.
 
"What brother Murrey teaches does not condem people to hell nor does it lead them there."
 
....heresies... they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
False doctrine will certainly cause many to fail to inherit the kingdom of God, Gal 5 says so.
 
1Tim4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 
Dr. Murray perverts the word of God, he teaches false doctrines about the nature of the son of God, he has uttered false prophesies, and  the people that continue to follow his teachings ... this is what the judgment of God says:
 
Eze14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;

 
People who listen to false prophets are punished the same as the false prophets.
 
"All I know is I listen to the word and let the HOLY SPIRIT guide me."
 
You and me and everyone else, yet we all have different opinions, that means either most, or all of us are not really hearing from the Holyghost.  Makes you wonder.
 
"He may be wrong about Cain and the flood and the elect but this does not lead men to hell,"
 
A little leaven leavens the whole lump.  Your way may seem right to you, but there is no scripture in all of God's Holy Book that will substantiate such perverse and heretical doctrine such as you are trying to establish, namely the notion that a little false doctrine is to be expected and accepted and tolerated among true Christians.  That is a lie.  A LITTLE LEAVEN.  Are you a follower of jesus Christ or not? Then you had better get in line with his teachings because right now you sound to me like a Christian in name only.
 
Curtis,  you are breaking my heart.  I'm not trying to be crude, or rude, or put you down, but it seems to me like you have taken hold of part of what Jesus said and missed a whole lot else of what he said.  Its like you god one side of the Jesus equation. think about this.
 
This is still true in Jesus:
Ecc3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 
There is a time to judge and a time not to judge, there is a time to rebuke a prophet and a time to hold your peace,
 
There is a time to answer a fool according to his folly and a time not to answer a fool in his folly.
 
Pr26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pr26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
 
How do we know when to do what?
 
2Cor3:6 the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life
Ecc3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal;
 
So when do you go by the letter and when do you go by the spirit, because there is a time for both.  To kill and to make alive.
 
The Holy Spirit is the only guide, but Dr. Murray denies the baptism of the holyghost, why should any spirit filled person ever listen to someone who denies and mocks the baptism of the holyghost?
 
The holy spirit lead me, twelve years after i stopped listening to Dr murray to begin speaking out against him, and until ordered otherwise, I will do it.
 
Sincerely,
Paul

 

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